The Agora

I guess I'll be one of the first.

Nay, for now.

Defederation should be the last option. After we have exhausted all other options. Because it's the exchange of ideas, and exposure to other viewpoints, that helps reduce bigotry and hatred.

I'm well aware that a fascist is gonna fascist, no matter what someone tells them. There is no reasoning with them or trying to have a discourse with them because they only want to frustrate you. Those users should be blocked, or better, banned from our instance if possible. But there will be other users of that instance who are regular folk who simply like the idea of free speech. They should not be cut off and left to be turned by the fascists.

Nay. Just block the instance for your own account if you feel offended. I wholeheartedly agree with you on the examples you've shown us. However, this does not warrant censorship for one. And on the other side, if no one is able to convince them due to deplatforming, things won't ever get better. Thus: Nay.

Nay

I think Contextual Idiot said it best - 'Defederation should be the last option. After we have exhausted all other options. Because it’s the exchange of ideas, and exposure to other viewpoints, that helps reduce bigotry and hatred.'

I'm going to agree with contextual idiot

Nay

Mainly because we ourselves have felt what it is like to be defederation because of others on our instance. There could very well be normal upstairs people hosted on that instance that never interacts with their instances community itself.

If we defederate we risk them getting stuck in an eco chamber and potentially become exactly like the rest of them. And then that also brings up the same issue. The ones that are already bigots, if put into an echo chamber are going to think they are correct and are going to become bigger bigots. We won't ever see it but the people in their day to day life will.

No, if the users are spamming this server then block them. I don’t like the idea of blocking jerks just cause they’re jerks on their own server

Nay. I don't like what they're doing over there, but I don't think defederating is the right thing to do.

Other people have already said what I was thinking: "Defederation should be the last option", "You have a block list, curate your own filter bubble", "we ourselves have felt what it is like", etc.

Aye.

At best it's clickbait trash. At worst it's the garbage OP highlighted.

I think I'm a nay - I'm torn. Basically I don't want to play the only ace card we have... Seems like an escalation, but I'm also qualified n00b and struggling to see how they're leaking across - other than with inflammatory replies

Aye.

Aye

Nay. Let's keep censorship to a minimum. No bubbles.

Could we have some links to examples so everyone can get an informed view of the kind of content you're talking about? I don't browse that instance normally.

Aye

The sooner the better because it's inevitable with our instance's rules

No.

You are not 'deplatforming' them by de-federating. They still have a platform, they still have communities and they still can post there. You can't deplatform people in a federated social media, they own their own instance. What you're asking is for the site admins to add every EH user and community to the block list of everyone on this instance. I'm an adult, I don't need a Big Brother deciding what I can and cannot see.

Save de-federation for last resort issues that cannot possibly be resolved in any other way. If an instance is spamming, if an instance is being used for planning violence, if an instance is allowing the sharing of abusive images or illegal material, if an instance is coordinating harassment (doxing, SWATing, etc) then de-federate them.

De-federation should not be used to create filter bubbles. You have a block list, curate your own filter bubble. Don't try to enforce your block list on everyone else.

It's also worth noting that, outside of the the 4th and 5th images, none of the posts in those images would even be considered breaking a rule if posted on this instance. You're, for the most part, just posting right-wing posts which makes this appear like you're trying to push a political position.

Aye. Don't platform dog whistling.

Edit: Actually I had an experience as a result of exploding-heads because I was looking for an Oregon community and came across their oregon one (archive link), which included demonizing homeless and trans people. I ended up blocking it. This isn't just a bandwagon. I don't want others on this instance to be lured into those hateful rabbit holes. I ended up joining the PNW community on lemmy.world

Aye.

After reviewing the instance myself, their federation creates risks for this server falling afoul of the Criminal Code of Canada and the Canadian Human Rights Act.

I understand defederation is a nuclear option, and wait anxiously for improved tools for users to block posts from entire instances if so desired, but I see no benefit in our being federated with this specific instance.

Aye.

I had given my reasons previously, but I prefer not to platform bigotry.

If there was a way to reason against this kind of thing, reason could be used.

It can't.

Nay.

Having shitty opinions is not an adequate basis to defederate them. I believe defederation should be a last resort.

There is a very clear way to justify defederation. Namely, if another instance is preventing our instance from flourishing. But unless the server is actively causing harm to our users and communities, why is it necessary? Simply block them if you want.

When people ask me why we defederated them, I would like to have a good answer.

Aye

Aye

Aye.

OP, as this seems to be almost exclusively discussion, and there's currently a discussion about how we should split things between discussion & votes, maybe you could retitle this as a Discussion and hold a proper vote after a day or two of convincing people here? If you want to ofc, those formats haven't been voted on yet.

I do agree with your cause, but with how much of a touchy subject defederation is, it's an excellent test-bed for doing things in as transparent and as rigorous a method as possible.

Aye.

Cut off the diseased branch to save the rest of the tree.

Aye. Looks like this instance is not very nice.

Aye, after seeing the pictures this instance could very easily get into trouble for hosting that kind of content. Keep in mind that the site is not hosted in the US, but Canada.

~~Overall~~ Aye, but I'd like to see some incriminating evidence of what we'd be blocking as an explanation and a warning before we do it. Pics, text posts can be banned and deleted.

Edit: Aye

Aye

nay, down vote and move on. if it really bothers you, unsubscribe/block. defederate only if they start brigading and normal mod controls stop working, if it's just a few bad actors should be easy enough to ban them

Aye, nothing lost from defederating them

Nay