this post was submitted on 01 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 65 points 1 month ago (7 children)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (6 children)

Sure sure, the speed cam after the slope in the woods is for safety, mhm.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I mean I don't know how you could think it wouldn't be. Well signposted camera will help you pay more attention to your speed on the slope, it's woods so presumably animals could run out at you.

If you can't see a bright fucking yellow speed camera, and haven't been paying attention to the ten dozen signed, then that's 100% on you.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago (11 children)

They are hidden here, not yellow bright.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (20 children)

cameras do NOT make the roads safer. it's a revenue stream based off ripping off it's citizens. if anything everyone slams on their brakes when they see one causing more accidents.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Why on Earth is this unfounded argument getting upvoted so heavily? Objectively the science says that it reduces injuries and deaths. Per the linked Cochrane systematic review of 35 studies:

Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.

People on the Internet will just upvote the most confidently incorrect shit as long as it has enough confidence behind it and it vaguely aligns with their preconceptions, I swear.

[–] jballs 13 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I think the sentiment against them stems from the fact that there are ways to reduce speeds without feeling like they're being used as a revenue stream.

Personally I like when there are warning signs saying "Speed camera in use ahead" since it has the effect of slowing down traffic and not feeling like a "gotcha" moment.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (4 children)

Maybe just drive the speed limit?

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (18 children)

Lemmy: Fuck cars!

Lemmy: Fuck the police!

Lemmy, when someone sabotages the most viable alternative to traffic stops to prevent people from speeding: Yes very good. This is good for society.

[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 month ago (9 children)

The most viable alternative to traffic stops is a narrow chicane with solid bollards on either side, although oher traffic calming devices are available.

Traffic cameras exist to generate revenue, not to make the streets safer. Intersections with red light cameras almost always have shorter yellow lights, to increase revenue while making the intersection less safe.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 month ago (9 children)

Source on speeding cameras working for anything other than revenue generation?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago (3 children)

If that were the case, they would be hidden.

They are a deterrent for speeding most of all.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (3 children)

In the UK (Where the op picture is) the police cannot collect the revenue from cameras and other fines. It all goes to the gov so the cops have zero financial incentive to install speed cameras.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I dunno if you've tried, but I'm here to tell ya, cobble stone streets will absolutely stop speeding really quick.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago (2 children)

How is this not "fuck the police" it's a camera, controlled by the police, to surveil people.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Traffic cameras ARE the police...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Speed traps are just a tool to further monetize and rent seek car culture in the absence of public transit.

You can, in fact, hate both cars and infrastructure that exists solely to make using a car more expensive.

the most viable alternative to traffic stops

I have never heard of a town that reduced the size of its police force after installing a speed trap.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago (1 children)

They do not exist solely to collect revenue, although they certainly do that as well. They have been proven time and again to reduce speeding and fatalities, as other commenters in this thread have pointed out. As far as using traffic cameras to reduce police forces, I haven't been able to find that exactly, but there are plenty of examples of deploying traffic cameras to work around a shortage of officers which works out to the same thing.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago

Shitposts!? On MY shitposting community!?? It's more likely than you think!

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

Lemmy users can believe in different things. We need differing opinions or it just stifles a website.

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[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (3 children)

[email protected]

The absolute entitlement.

Edit: For those not wanting to read through this whole thing, speed cameras have been shown objectively in a systematic analysis of 35 studies to reduce traffic injuries and deaths.

Thirty five studies met the inclusion criteria. Compared with controls, the relative reduction in average speed ranged from 1% to 15% and the reduction in proportion of vehicles speeding ranged from 14% to 65%. In the vicinity of camera sites, the pre/post reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes and 11% to 44% for fatal and serious injury crashes. Compared with controls, the relative improvement in pre/post injury crash proportions ranged from 8% to 50%.

Authors' conclusions: Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.

Edit 2: That being said, speed cams are objectively helpful aren't the sole tool we should be using. Traffic calming is enormously beneficial and cost-effective for making places with roads safer for drivers and pedestrians.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago (13 children)

Is it the cars, or is it police using laws as revenue generators that intentionally affect the poor disproportionately?

[–] [email protected] 40 points 1 month ago (1 children)

You are allowed to drive the speed limit, even if you're poor 😇

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Not if the speed camera runs your plates to determine you're poor and notifies the police of an inbound precariat, letting them use their psychokinesis to entrap you into speeding.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (13 children)

Would it generate revenue if people didn't feel so entitled to put others' lives in greater jeopardy to get to their destination 30 seconds faster? No? Not speeding is the easiest thing in the world; it's an objective number not to exceed that you directly control and that your car tells you in real time, but at least in the US, drivers are in an arms race to see what kind of bullshit they can get away with, making cops less likely to pull them over. This means that when the average driver can – without warning and with precision – be dinged for speeding, they throw a tantrum about it and act like they've been victimized.

Ticketing does disproportionately affect the poor, and we should reform ticketing to change based on income, but can you seriously tell me with a straight face that the people doing this are doing it because they're protesting socioeconomic injustice? Or because they're entitled drivers who want to be able to speed with impunity? It's the drivers here being entitled and thinking that they're above the law. Personal vehicles are a privilege, not a right, but drivers don't treat it like one. Over 100 people per day die to motor vehicle crashes in the US alone, and kinetic energy increases with the square of velocity; if drivers don't like speed limits, they're more than welcome to stay off the streets and stop thinking their personal convenience trumps people's right to life.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (8 children)
  1. if you drive at the speed limit you won't have a problem

  2. the speed camera will be well signposted (car on the left so this is the UK) while it's not a legal requirement that they have signposts I've never come across a fixed camera that isn't

  3. If you don't break the law you won't have a problem

  4. the camera is painted bright yellow for visibility

  5. once again for the those at the back who are hard of thinking: don't speed and you won't get fined

  6. usually for first time offences if you're just a bit over the limit you'll get the option of a speed awareness course.

  7. You've probably come to expect odd numbered points to tell you to not break the law by now, so I'll mix it up: if you get caught breaking the law and get a slap on the wrist, don't keep breaking the law.


I do agree though that the fining structure should be reformed, it should be a percentage of income with some provision in place so the super rich can't get out of paying their appropriate share too.

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[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Yeah, can you imagine? Cars actually driving below speed limits and not risking everyone's lives? Good thing this buddy makes side we can all speed like idiots instt

[–] Ookami38 15 points 1 month ago (20 children)

If only speed cameras worked to lower the speed anyone travels at... Realistically, people are going to drive the speed that feels safe for that road, and a speed camera is just going to disproportionately punish people without the money to pay the fines.

Make roads that are designed for the speed you want people to drive at, not wide open expanses that give no actual reason to slow down.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago (8 children)

If only speed cameras worked to lower the speed anyone travels at

They do. They objectively do. How are there so many people all over this thread just confidently asserting complete, disprovable bullshit, and why is it getting upvoted? From the Cochrane systematic review:

Thirty five studies met the inclusion criteria. Compared with controls, the relative reduction in average speed ranged from 1% to 15% and the reduction in proportion of vehicles speeding ranged from 14% to 65%. In the vicinity of camera sites, the pre/post reductions ranged from 8% to 49% for all crashes and 11% to 44% for fatal and serious injury crashes. Compared with controls, the relative improvement in pre/post injury crash proportions ranged from 8% to 50%.

Authors' conclusions: Despite the methodological limitations and the variability in degree of signal to noise effect, the consistency of reported reductions in speed and crash outcomes across all studies show that speed cameras are a worthwhile intervention for reducing the number of road traffic injuries and deaths. However, whilst the the evidence base clearly demonstrates a positive direction in the effect, an overall magnitude of this effect is currently not deducible due to heterogeneity and lack of methodological rigour. More studies of a scientifically rigorous and homogenous nature are necessary, to provide the answer to the magnitude of effect.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Interesting. Mostly what I see is people slam on their brakes near the camera, then take off again after it.

My theory: There's so little enforcement of the traffic laws here, they might as well not exist. You're almost certain NOT to get caught, so people will do whatever they want and will practically always get away with it. I don't really want to argue for more cops, but when I've driven in areas with more traffic enforcement and visible police presence, people tend to drive much more sedately.

I drive and ride bicycle, and I would LOVE if the cops came riding with me some time. I see some of them doing the 100 mile ride for charity in our county, so I know they have people on the force who ride fairly seriously. Join one of our regular group rides wearing cycling clothes (not police gear), get another cop stationed ahead in a car or motorcycle...and start pulling over some people who buzz us or roll coal. Word would get out very quickly.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (4 children)

For me personally, I think more cops isn't the ideal solution. Instead, I think traffic calming measures should be introduced to make drivers feel less safe if they choose to speed.

Better enforcement is 100% necessary, and I think speed cams can be a good way to prevent dangerous driving through the threat of enforcement. That said, I also think in terms of cost efficiency that direct preventative measures such as speed cushions, bollards, trees, medians, sidewalk extensions, lane narrowing, roundabouts, etc. will be more cost-effective to some point than and should be used in conjunction with speed cams.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (20 children)

If speed cameras are less biased than humans when issuing tickets, I see them as a fairer method of speed enforcement. Also safer for BIPOC individuals to receive a ticket in the mail, as opposed to a roadside traffic stop.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Reminds me of a past mayor of the city I live in. One of his talking points was too get rid of the speeding cameras in the city. He came into office and did a photo op covering the first camera. A few weeks later his son died due to an accident caused by wreckless speeding driver in City center.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago

Speeding cameras wouldn't have changed that.

“There is little evidence” that automated traffic enforcement is an effective tool at either “improving traffic safety [or] limiting violent interactions between law enforcement and drivers during minor traffic stops ... when enforcement is predicated simply on the assessment of financial sanctions," the group Fines and Fees Justice Center argued in its report.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/03/20/is-automated-enforcement-making-u-s-cities-safer-or-just-raising-revenue

Not to mention, many cameras are hidden and create false positives. They get mailed tickets and have to spend a day in court.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 month ago

Looks like they should do the cameras in a different order.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago (4 children)
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[–] nonentity 15 points 1 month ago (2 children)

One could enhance it into an art installation with thermite.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 month ago
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago

Who took the picture?
The speedcam cam!

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 month ago (1 children)

It's well in the shade already.

[–] babybus 13 points 1 month ago

Just wait until the turtle turns a little.

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