this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
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That's a clever joke. I however have radical freedom!
Chooses to put the book outside
I can’t turn to the page cuz it’s an image on a screen.
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Unless we have a way to find out what that predetermined future is, it's irrelevant and you should proceed as if it isn't a thing.
So you're saying turn to page 72.
If you like. You can also be a rebel and turn to a different page or stop reading the book altogether.
But then I'll never know how it ends!
Then you can follow the path created by the author! This kind of reminds me of The Stanley Parable.
"When Stanley came to a set of two open doors, he entered the door on his left."
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When I was like 7 my mom bought me a choose your own adventure book. I tried to read it cover to cover and was very confused.
So if you read it cover to cover, what did you think the instructions were about? What about the "turn to page X" parts?
I'm not judging - this is exactly the sort of oblivious thing I would've done as a kid too - but I'm curious how it happened.
I specifically remember doing this with one of the goosebumps choose your own adventure. There was a good ending page that referenced nirvana (the idea not the band) and I read that thing end to end choosing both choices for everything. No page ever sent you to it. It was just a contrivance that you were sent to glance at while flipping through.
Okay that's kind of amazing, you found an easter egg in an out of bounds area.
I didn't know Fallout 4 had a graphic novel!
Haha, fuck fate. I have free will!
Throws the book in the fireplace
The predetermined universe smiles when the book's fate is being fulfilled.
book lands in fireplace open on page 72
But the book only has 71 pages
Pg 72 is in volume 2.
If you are interested, buy volume 2. Else, buy volume 2.
One cauld rightfully argue "determination" and "predetermination" are wildly different concepts. The comic is wrong on this. But let's go page 72 anyway
I'm taking my towel to page 42. You can't fool me!
Quiet. Accept your servitude to propaganda and conditioning.
You could have stopped at (universal) servitude. But yeah, they say it all becomes clear p.72!
Hell yeah how good is determinism
That is yet to be determined.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UebSfjmQNvs - Kurzgesagt - Lemmings will reee optimistic greenwashing.
Can Free Will be Saved in a Deterministic Universe? PBS Space Time - And it's counter argument page https://whyevolutionistrue.com/2020/11/15/free-will-video/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/free-will-is-only-an-illusion-if-you-are-too/ - I'm glad to the coincidence regarding see my semantics point regarding 'Free will' being a somewhat outdated term being a key point in this article.
And yet I can speak about my consciousness, and therefore deliver information to you based on an experience which can't be physically observed or quantified.
Perhaps the universe is naught but a comforting illusion.
deliver information to you based on an experience which can’t be physically observed or quantified
I'm not sure if "Black Box of electro-chemistry" is necessarily the same as "Non-determinism".
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
Yeah, I was curious if anyone would catch that. My comment doesn't necessarily ensure free will, it just rejects a physicalist model of reality as a basis for determinism. You can have neutral monism and still have determinism.
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting idealist takes in response to shitty physicalist takes. 🤭
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting
🫡
In that case, carry on.
Neutral monism just looks like "we have to have souls because the science is uncomfortable to me" but for atheists lol
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
How does higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for raise the perception of freedom of said choice?
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You could be a Boltzmann Brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain
Of course, from my perspective, I would be the Boltzmann brain and you would be my dream.
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Would be nice if there was a hidden ending on page 57
I am disappointed in how long it took me to see the joke, but its a good one! I'm gonna have to go with page 72.
This reminds me of that one riddler comic (Found it, batman black and white #5 "The Riddle", here's a reddit link since that was the easiest to find https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/comments/tn8b68/ )
It's a creative and very short choose your own adventure and I highly recommend it
Which book is this?
Source?
The deterministic universe may one day force you to visit your local library.
I am okay with that, although not sure if I would have another opinion under different circumstances
Can you agree but also conclude that this knowledge has no real impact on our lives, and therefore our agency is preserved?
Relevant pbs spacetime video (discovery about microtubules relevant to theory of quantum consciousness)
Robert Sapolsky's books are challenging but worthwhile reads.
Your mind is a computer attempting to optimally fulfill several prerogatives which are determined primarily through evolutionary pressures. It is free to do this in the way it sees best and is free to adapt as the environment in which it operates changes, in the sense that it is not forced to override it's internal decisions and come to a different conclusion regarding how to act. I consider this to be free will. You may disagree, but that would be haggling over definitions, rather than facts.
Crucially, this definition is true regardless of whether the universe's course is predetermined or not. I personally don't think it is, because a good chunk of the universe is random and I find it hard to believe that that randomness was predetermined.
If we're to rely on facts and facts only, I'll argue its internal decision making is itself clearly determined by several factors, most if not all of them being determined causally.
I'm quite sure this addition erases the mere idea "free(dom)" and "free will", which would somehow escape universal determinism, hence creating a special case in the laws of causality for humanity only.
Edit : changed phrasing because I answered after reading your first paragraph. Then I read the second one.
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