this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2024
1097 points (98.8% liked)
Lemmy Shitpost
26951 readers
2707 users here now
Welcome to Lemmy Shitpost. Here you can shitpost to your hearts content.
Anything and everything goes. Memes, Jokes, Vents and Banter. Though we still have to comply with lemmy.world instance rules. So behave!
Rules:
1. Be Respectful
Refrain from using harmful language pertaining to a protected characteristic: e.g. race, gender, sexuality, disability or religion.
Refrain from being argumentative when responding or commenting to posts/replies. Personal attacks are not welcome here.
...
2. No Illegal Content
Content that violates the law. Any post/comment found to be in breach of common law will be removed and given to the authorities if required.
That means:
-No promoting violence/threats against any individuals
-No CSA content or Revenge Porn
-No sharing private/personal information (Doxxing)
...
3. No Spam
Posting the same post, no matter the intent is against the rules.
-If you have posted content, please refrain from re-posting said content within this community.
-Do not spam posts with intent to harass, annoy, bully, advertise, scam or harm this community.
-No posting Scams/Advertisements/Phishing Links/IP Grabbers
-No Bots, Bots will be banned from the community.
...
4. No Porn/Explicit
Content
-Do not post explicit content. Lemmy.World is not the instance for NSFW content.
-Do not post Gore or Shock Content.
...
5. No Enciting Harassment,
Brigading, Doxxing or Witch Hunts
-Do not Brigade other Communities
-No calls to action against other communities/users within Lemmy or outside of Lemmy.
-No Witch Hunts against users/communities.
-No content that harasses members within or outside of the community.
...
6. NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that is NSFW should be behind NSFW tags.
-Content that might be distressing should be kept behind NSFW tags.
...
If you see content that is a breach of the rules, please flag and report the comment and a moderator will take action where they can.
Also check out:
Partnered Communities:
1.Memes
10.LinuxMemes (Linux themed memes)
Reach out to
All communities included on the sidebar are to be made in compliance with the instance rules. Striker
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm not sure if "Black Box of electro-chemistry" is necessarily the same as "Non-determinism".
That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren't trivial to map or anticipate.
That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.
Yeah, I was curious if anyone would catch that. My comment doesn't necessarily ensure free will, it just rejects a physicalist model of reality as a basis for determinism. You can have neutral monism and still have determinism.
I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting idealist takes in response to shitty physicalist takes. 🤭
🫡
In that case, carry on.
Neutral monism just looks like "we have to have souls because the science is uncomfortable to me" but for atheists lol
How does higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for raise the perception of freedom of said choice?
More higher uncertainty of an outside observer predicting the choices you will make.
The inability to anticipate another person's actions suggests they may have internal agency. Compared to say, a rock, which you can shove and confidently predict where it will stop moving, a human is far more difficult to judge.
I don’t understand what you are getting at. You are either saying that you can predict where a fly is going to go when you set it free or you are saying that a fly has internal agency.
If the fly lacks agency, you would be able to predict its movement given a sufficiently accurate set of information.
If it has agency, you could not.
It's difficult to predict the path of a leaf floating in the wind, but I don't think anybody would say a leaf has agency.
Orders of magnitude less difficult, as the leaf can't glean your intent and respond accordingly.
Can you prove that?
That the movement of a leaf in the wind is less complex than the electro-chemical processes of a human brain?
With enough time and math, certainly.
The point is, you were using the point that a fly's movements were complex to argue that a fly has internal agency. But, a leaf floating on the wind also has complex movements. To me, that makes it seem like complex movements aren't a solid indicator of agency.
If you're now talking about dissection, that's a whole different argument.
A fly has the ability to observe its surroundings and adjust its position in response to outside stimulus. A leaf does not. That, alone, adds a dimension of activity that the first possesses and the second doesn't.
You can argue that the fly is still a deterministic agent, but the ability to observe and respond adds a dimension of activity that's more complex than a leaf, which can only move based on the surrounding wind currents.
You missed the point while drawing your circular argument.
Take what you said and replace fly with human. Wait here I’ll do it for you:
Now tell me how you will acquire a sufficiently accurate set of information about a human and its environment to test your hypothesis.
You can't. That's a significant problem of identifying the existence or absence of "Free Will".