'Had to look it up... That's the anarchist flag.
this post was submitted on 20 Feb 2024
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Spontaneously I thought it was some kind of boat signal flag.
For when the boat has no captain
NO BOSUNS, NO CAPTAINS
Kinda looks like “O”
One of the many. Red and black is used by anarcho-communists/anarcho-syndicalists.
They have more than one flag? They should all get together and have some kind of symposium to pick a single flag. Get on the same page and all that.
I think the fully black flag would over all anarchists but leftists have a very ironic love for flags so there's all sorts of flags.
Ah yes, the "let's just not have laws or regulations and hopefully nobody kills each other" communists.
Anarchy does not mean "no laws or regulations". Anarchy means "no vertical power structures".
BTW, Marx's idea of a classless, stateless society is essentially anarchist.
Laws and Regulations with no Enforcement is the same as No Laws and No Regulations. Enforcement comes from a vertical power structure.
Social and societal norms and contracts already exist, and in every applicable example people will immediately betray each other for benefits to themselves. Imagine that on a much larger scale when addictive drugs and fully automatic weapons suddenly become legal but strongly disapproved of.
This reflects a deep misunderstanding of anarcho-communism which I once shared. As someone who uses a broader definition of 'state' which comes into conflict with most anarchists' narrower definition of 'state', I find it more helpful to think of anarcho-communism as an extremely decentralized, directly democratic state without bureaucratic specialists or private property. When someone fucks around, the community gets together to vote on what kind of 'find out' follows, and then, as a community, agrees to enforce it.
There are complete and functioning examples of anarcho-communism in the 20th century, but every individual piece of the puzzle also has historical precedent. Collective enforcement is very common in secure-but-isolated and rural areas before the modern-era; collective decision-making has precedent essentially wherever and whenever a community lacks long-standing decision-making institutions or a 'strong-man', etc etc.
What if a secure-but-isolated rural area has a group who enforces christo-fascist ideological beliefs such as banning maternal medication and care, but the small (comparative to share of total population) vocal group has better guns due to their larger organizational structure spanning churches in several psuedo-states? You think the community is going to line up to be slaughtered by the new might-makes-right societal structure?
I'm not misunderstanding shit, mate. You're misunderstanding how powerless a supposed anarcho-anything is against human hostility.
BTW thanks for engaging with me on this subject, it feels nice to have a decent conversation where I'm not constantly suspicious the other person is some kind of bot, as with most shillery I argue against these days.
What if a secure-but-isolated rural area has a group who enforces christo-fascist ideological beliefs such as banning maternal medication and care, but the small (comparative to share of total population) vocal group has better guns due to their larger organizational structure spanning churches in several psuedo-states?
Then you have the Spanish Civil War.
btw I do unironically think you're a cool person.
Hah, well, thank you!
BTW thanks for engaging with me on this subject, it feels nice to have a decent conversation where I’m not constantly suspicious the other person is some kind of bot, as with most shillery I argue against these days.
Yeah, I know that feeling. As aggressive as I can get, I generally respect people who hold honest conversations.
I suppose if violently offing 1% of the lower class population and (with some outside help) plunging the western world into a decade of war is the cost of true freedom, it's worth trying at least a few more times. /s
Didn't realize the three years of the Spanish Civil War were responsible for ten years of war for the rest of the West.
And unironically, yes. Every revolution is preceded by a hundred failed revolutions against unjust power structures. I'm not an ancom, but I'm also not under the impression that the immensely fucked current state of society is as good as it can get. I'll break out an old Twain quote that I do so adore:
There were two “Reigns of Terror,” if we would but remember it and consider it; the one wrought murder in hot passion, the other in heartless cold blood; the one lasted mere months, the other had lasted a thousand years; the one inflicted death upon ten thousand persons, the other upon a hundred millions; but our shudders are all for the “horrors” of the minor Terror, the momentary Terror, so to speak; whereas, what is the horror of swift death by the axe, compared with lifelong death from hunger, cold, insult, cruelty, and heart-break? What is swift death by lightning compared with death by slow fire at the stake? A city cemetery could contain the coffins filled by that brief Terror which we have all been so diligently taught to shiver at and mourn over; but all France could hardly contain the coffins filled by that older and real Terror — that unspeakably bitter and awful Terror which none of us has been taught to see in its vastness or pity as it deserves.
It's a little disingenuous to believe every failed revolution contributes to the one successful good outcome. More often than not, overthrowing the previous powers just leads into militaristic groups taking control and becoming a dictatorship.
The Spanish Civil War oversimplified basically boils down to this: one side, the nationalists, that supported the military regime and the Nazis and provided supplies and mainly logistics for them, and one side who decided it was better to throw their bodies into the machine until it stopped turning. The side with the Nazis won the war. Since the Nazis were at war on multiple fronts, there few allies were key in prolonging the conflict and defending Germany.
It’s a little disingenuous to believe every failed revolution contributes to the one successful good outcome.
Contributes? No. But you don't know which attempt will succeed until the whole conflict is over. That's not an excuse to say "Well, this will be bloody, so maybe instead we just stay under feudal authority." You can't do that; you have to press forward.
The Spanish Civil War oversimplified basically boils down to this: one side, the nationalists, that supported the military regime and the Nazis and provided supplies and mainly logistics for them, and one side who decided it was better to throw their bodies into the machine until it stopped turning. The side with the Nazis won the war. Since the Nazis were at war on multiple fronts, there few allies were key in prolonging the conflict and defending Germany.
... I don't know that I follow this? Nazi Germany wasn't at war, for all intents and purposes, until '39, by which point the Spanish Civil War was wrapping up. The Republican side didn't try to 'throw bodies into the machine until it stopped turning', the war was highly contested and anyone's game for the first two years.
The Nationalists were still allied with Nazi Germany before the Nazis were at war as well as after the Spanish Civil War ended, because, once again, the bad guys who previously overthrew a democracy had won the war.
So, basically a popularity contest taken to the extreme... I wonder how long it takes before it devolves into something like Running Man or the Hunger Games.
The justice system in the US is completely fucked, but this sounds like we would be focusing on the worst aspect of the current system and tossing out everything else.
I think that the problem with any of the "anarchist" or libertarian plans is that they all rely on everyone buying into the system. They ignore the reality of people acting against their own interests, Just look at the rise of fascism right now... a small but vocal minority have convinced a much larger group to burn down everything that offers them any kind of freedom or prosperity. The vast majority of people currently backing fascist ideas are going to be the very ones who lose the most under fascism.
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There are two levels of discussion here.
One is about finding a common understanding of what anarchism means, the other about how to achieve it.
To understand what no vertical power structure could look like, you could imagine a friend group going to the park together. Who suggests what will differ and change over time, but no one inherently has any power over another.
If we employ a little fantasy, in a post scarcity society (think Star Trek or The Culture), where any conceivable need and whim can be catered for, there is no reason for misbehaviour or crime, and thus no need for enforcement - this is also anarchist.
As to how we get to such a state of being, I can't say. Traditions, history, and cultural trauma seem unbridgeable in less than several generations, and even then we would need more resources and knowledge than I think humanity could have on this level on the Kardashev scale.
I also had to look it up. To be more precise, it's the anarcho-communist flag. Where red stands for communism and black for anarchy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_symbolism#Red_and_black_flag
Isn't having a flag kind of antithetical to anarchism?
No. In politics, Anarchism doesn’t mean ‘no rules, everyone for themselves!’, more like everyone for each other. Well, unless you take AnCaps seriously…
But regardless, it’s an ideology, not a lack of ideology, and it helps Anarchists to identify and spread their message to use symbols like the flag.
An-coms are like small government socialists. Give means of production to the local unions! Abolish corps! Abolish federal government!
Well we had to start calling ourselves anarchists because the capitalists stole our word for libertarian you see.
Anarchism is a complex web of horizontal structures, not the absence of it. Having uniting symbolism is perfectly fine.
The concept of an official symbol for anarchy seems antithetical
It's for one specific strain of anarchism: Anarcho-communism (anarcho-syndicalism uses these colors, too, but it's usually used for AnCom).
There are several designs for the different kinds of anarchism. Usually, it's diagonal-black and some other color (e.g.: violet: anarcho-feminism, green: eco-anarchism, ...).
Yellow doesn't count, since ancaps aren't anarchist.
Edit: typo
Doesn't look like an official symbol, and it's also used for signaling. Libertarian socialism?
Cool quote about the black flag, another traditional anarchist flag:
The black flag is the negation of all flags. It is a negation of nationhood ... Black is a mood of anger and outrage at all the hideous crimes against humanity perpetrated in the name of allegiance to one state or another ... But black is also beautiful. It is a colour of determination, of resolve, of strength, a colour by which all others are clarified and defined ... So black is negation, is anger, is outrage, is mourning, is beauty, is hope, is the fostering and sheltering of new forms of human life and relationship on and with this earth
Doesn't look like an official symbol, and it's also used for signaling. Libertarian socialism?
It has been used by the spanish CNT/FAI, so at least since the 1930s.
Libertarian socialism is just another term for anarcho-communism.
The fact that "libertarian" is mostly connotated with ancaps goes back to Murray Rothbard, who "stole" the term. Before him, "libertarian" was a synonym for "anarchist".
Oh thank goodness. Thank you. Well I am totally down with Anarcho communism
Libertarian socialism is just another term for anarcho-communism.
Honestly, once I understood this, I found anarcho-communism much more understandable. Funny what power there is in words.
Arkhos (as in an-arkhos = anarchy) means "chief" (anarchy = no chief).
Anarchy, loosely, is governance without a figurehead or centralized leadership. I'd argue the stars and stripes doesn't mean "Biden" or even "the executive branch", the union jack doesn't mean "Rishi Sunak" and the tricolor doesn't mean "Macron"
I'd argue you could radically amend the system of government and still keep the flag.
I reject your ~~reality~~ flag and substitute my own.
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It's the pride flag for those really really wanting to fuck the government.
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Red - the blood of angry men!
Black - the dark of ages past!
Red - a world about to dawn!
Black - the night that ends at last!
Red - Ketchup
Black - Caviar
So yummy together
Food beyond compare. Food beyond belief! Mix it in a mincer and pretend it's beef. Kidney of a horse, liver of a cat, filling up the sausages with this and that.
Someone hand this individual a Grammy! Their entire life has led up to the point of the creation of this masterpiece! The generations that follow will remember your name (that I can't read unfortunately) with tears in their eyes like this- "😂".
Talk about a red flag. Nobody wants to share a room with an anarchist.
I do. As much as I want to be forced to share a room with anyone. Which is not at all. So technically you're correct?
But if I had to choose a roommate, a self identified anarchist is preferable to many other identifications.
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