"The Holodomor was caused by selfish kulak farmers and the real victims were the Russian people" is the kind of thing I'd write to mock tankies, and then delete because I thought it was too on the nose. Jesus Christ.
this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
187 points (91.2% liked)
MeanwhileOnGrad
1390 readers
3 users here now
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
I’ve read that opinion on lemmy in the last week without a shred of irony attached.
Hence this post
I admit, I was distracted when I wrote that comment and realized my mistake shortly after. Lemmy gave me a spinning wheel when I tried to delete it and, well, here it stays as a result.
Man, these tankies are fun. They have been sniffing their own farts so much, it really isn't subtle with them anymore.
'Fun' is one word. Me, I don't much care for having these shitheads around. If I wanted to see animals flinging poo, I'd go to the zoo.
Good thing is that it's just 3 to 4 accounts from Hexbear that spam this instance. Makes it easy to block them if you grow tired of them.
Jenkem is a helluva drug
You can even tell who they are if they have a gender pronoun tag next to their username. I get it might be helpful in casual conversation with these folk but the format of conversations here don't give too many chances for them to be used.
Every instance should defederate from Hexbear. It's the QAnon of the left.
I literally stopped lurking and made an account just to block them.
EDIT
New Hexbear keep coming up is there any way to block them all or do I have to squash each one as it comes up? A big part of the reason I left reddit was all the ridiculous bad faith political arguing, I really don't want to leave one site because of mostly right-wing extremists to have to leave another because of mostly left-wing extremists?
Lemmy.world is defederated with Hexbear.
Sync for Lemmy lets you block entire instances.
Kbin also let's you block instances
This sounds like how antisemites talk about George Soros, talking about an otherwise irrelevant figure like he's in control of world politics.
All extremists are the same from my experiences with them.
I think there's value in distinguishing between extremists and people searching for easy answers. For example, I could certainly find you a few very moderate Democrats who nonetheless believe in massive conspiracies against their own ideology. We notice it most with extremists, in part because if you're gonna believe in conspiracies, chances are you're gonna believe in radical solutions to them, but the essential problem is that people want to know that there's a core problem at the heart of the world, and that it can be solved, in some form or fashion.
Unfortunately, the world is infinitely complex, and most issues have many inputs, and all solutions have costs. Not equal inputs or equal costs, but still. But that's less comforting - that suggests you can do everything right, and still fail. Who wants to think that? So instead, they turn to conspiracy - of COURSE it would work, if only you got rid of the Kulaks/Jews/Liberals/Poors.
Why not get rid of poors? They don't like being poor, right? So if we provide equal opportunity to everyone — they could become a middle class. Or be themselves responsible over their economic state.
I expect that's not what ancaps mean when they talk about 'physical removal', but it is a good undertaking for anyone who's not oriented towards cruelty.
Alternatively, there can be no middle class without a lower class simply by definition of 'middle'. XD
"Phisical removal" is a meme. Hoppe originally used the phrase when writing about people who ideologically oppose anarchy (in established anarchist society). And he didn't mean a "helicopter ride", he meant societal pressure, shunning, or in his own words " you're not welcome here" attitude.
Hoppe
anarchist
No.
I know damn well what Hoppe meant, and 'physical removal' being a meme no more absolves it of its connotations than 'God-Emperor Trump' being a meme absolves MAGA idiots who use it. Hoppe's view of an anarchist society is quite explicitly- you know what, why don't I let him own words speak for him?
if only towns and villages could and would do what they did as a matter of course until well into the nineteenth century in Europe and the United States: to post signs regarding entrance requirements to the town, and once in town for entering specific pieces of property (no beggars, bums, or homeless, but also no Moslems, Hindus, Jews, Catholics, etc.); to expel as trespassers those who do not fulfill these requirements
I mean, a classless society would be a genuinely good thing. It's very important that your means of creating said society matches the values that you want that society to have, though. Authoritarian communists fail pretty hard on that front.
Holodomor was part of my studies In 2011. Blaming that situation on anyone but the soviets requires either some very uneducated opinions or serious mental gymnastics. Hexbear probably provides both.
The most favorable number to those who claim it wasn't a genocide is a death toll of 3.5 million by starvation.
To put that in context. The great Irish famine claimed about 1 million lives.
Ukrainians resisted soviet policies. Soviet responded by engineering a mass starvation as retaliation. Guess people can't resist you if they're too busy starving to death.
This sub will be interesting now that hexbear is federated with sjw.
It's funny seeing Hexbears not understand how lemmy works. It's hilarious seeing them angry over dissent.
I'm old. What are 'Tankies'?
As the other tankie poster mentioned, it is a very old term, from the 50s and 60s, when the Soviets sent tanks in to crush Hungarians and Czechoslovakians for wanting to be a slightly different kind of Communist than the kind of Communist the Soviet Union wanted them to be. 'Tankie' was the term used by many Western Communists to condemn the Soviets and their supporters, and many Western leftists subsequently split from Soviet sympathies after the incidents. Tankies are the kind of people who say 'Left Unity' but by 'Left Unity' mean 'Everyone agrees with us or gets shot'. They're cretins, authoritarians, and usually genocide deniers, when they aren't busy celebrating genocide.
If the Hexbears could read they'd be very upset right now
i mostly agree with this view although i personally prefer a usage of the term "tankie" to refer to any regime (or any individual performing apologia for said regime) which specifically used(or uses) military assets to systematically brutalize and slaughter their own civilians when those civilians dare to hold a political opinion other than the one espoused by the regime.
The reason: this is a fairer definition that accounts for atrocities which are equally as objectionable without the pointless and irrelevant overhead of economic policy, such as: when Petro Poroshenko shelled civilians in eastern Ukraine for the """"crime"""" of living in the same broad municipal area as pro-Russian separatists. This bone-headed move is what gave Russia their (extremely dubious) Cassus Belli for invading Ukraine later. If not for Poroshenko pulling a tankie maneuver and hurling military assets at his own people, Russia would have had EVEN LESS legitimacy to their claim of the Ukrainian government trying to "genocide" the Russian-speaking populations within Ukraine. As it stands, thanks to Poroshenko, there in fact WERE civilians who died under the Ukrainian regime at the time, and whom also were native Russophones.
(Frankly i suspect that Poroshenko was either a Russian false flag plant or a useful idiot 'helped' into place in order to undermine Ukraine and make it vulnerable to Russian takeover, and that he wasn't """"supposed to"""" lose to Volodymyr Zelenskyy in in 2019. Russia was anticipating to be carrying out its """"special military operation"""" against Poroshenko's regime, NOT some other guy who wasn't brutalizing civilians, and when that went off the rails, they decided "fuck it we'll do it anyway" and it's not working out terribly well for them as a result. But that's an argument for another thread.)
I feel like at that point the casual usage of 'murderer', or 'war criminal' would be more appropriate than 'tankie'. Like how National Socialists are neither constrained to their own nation nor socialists, but no one would use the phrase to mean anything but the original fucking Nazis and those who are like them. Tanks may be a good representation of government authority overreach and violence, but 'tankie' has an established meaning, and communication is dependent on established meanings.
-
I heard that "national socialist" is kind of a translation error and that a more fitting verbiage would have been "social nationalists" because they are, at their core, nationalists (nationalist supremacists that believe their nation should reign over others) who passively ape the aesthetics of socialism up until the moment they can get away with murdering all the socialists.
-
I suppose it's that, from the standpoint of making language perform its task with better efficacy and efficiency, a tweak of a term's usage that removes confounding specificity which gives it a broader, more flexible scope, that is more applicable for general use, would remove room for hair-splitting arguments (since now it's involving the whole scalp, metaphorically speaking) and make the term less niche and obscure, thereby improving its utility.
Language is, after all, descriptive rather than prescriptive. While we all fundamentally have to know what others mean when they use a word, we do have the power to motivate a refinement of its meaning that makes it easier to understand and use.
Fascist leftists. Stalinists.