It is real because everyone pretends it is.
this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2025
1181 points (99.6% liked)
People Twitter
5781 readers
1834 users here now
People tweeting stuff. We allow tweets from anyone.
RULES:
- Mark NSFW content.
- No doxxing people.
- Must be a pic of the tweet or similar. No direct links to the tweet.
- No bullying or international politcs
- Be excellent to each other.
- Provide an archived link to the tweet (or similar) being shown if it's a major figure or a politician.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
Almost everything is pretend though, unless we're talking about the basic laws of science (and even those change with context).
Language is "pretend". Words don't mean anything unless we all agree they mean something.
Valuing family is "pretend". We all agree to give family importance, but plenty of animals don't.
All laws are pretend. Country borders are pretend. Gender roles are pretend. Social position is pretend. Even my job is only my job because everyone agrees to give me responsibility in this role. Pretty much everything in society only works because of tacit agreement.
Yo, the amazing digital circus, it goes hard (the first episode was rather brutal💀)
load more comments
(3 replies)
You should check out the book Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind. Humans have this amazing ability to make up all sorts of crazy shit, but it has huge advantages in our ability to organize.
One on one, a chimp would easily beat up a human. Ten on ten, the chimps still have an advantage. But 200 on 200, humans would win no contest. Our ability to make shit up allows us to coordinate with huge numbers people that we don't even know, which is extraordinarily rare.
What differentiates humans from all animals including apes is our ability to cooperate & coordinate. Cooperation is what has allowed humans to dominate the world. I'm quite optimistic about the future simply because our innate sense of cooperation is all the good we have ever needed to conquer any and all evil the world has managed to create at any point in history all the way to now, and will continue to hold true forever.
We're also surprisingly resilient compared to many other species. We can recover from wounds that would be lethal for other animals in weeks or months - such as broken or even lost limbs. We grow scar tissue at a pretty rapid pace as well, allowing us to heal wounds quickly. And our pain tolerance is high enough that other animals would drop dead of shock from some of these things. We invented surgery at least 200 years before painkillers, and things that we consider minor surgery would outright kill other animals. Hell, we were punching holes in our skulls to "let the bad light out" in the Neolithic era. Our mouths grow too many teeth, so we rip them out and graft metal onto the rest to force them to grow in alignment.
Our endurance is so high that the only other species that can keep up with us is dogs, and even then, they can only sort of keep up. We used to have a hunting strategy where we'd follow an animal at a walking pace for hours on end, never letting them rest, until they eventually couldn't run anymore or simply dropped dead from exhaustion. We have a pretty wide range of temperatures and climates that we can survive in thanks to our ability to sweat off heat and shiver to burn extra calories for warmth. We can go 3 days without any food or water, and a full week with only water to sustain us.
There was a great sci-fi short story somebody wrote once about how humans were some of the most beloved crew members for spaceships because while we may not be the strongest, fastest, or most intelligent species out there, our ability to pack-bond with literally anything - including inanimate objects - and crazy endurance meant that we were the most dependable and capable species in a crisis. A human would jump into Hell itself in order to save a crewmate and simply walk it off like it was nothing afterward.
such as broken or even lost limbs
When I broke my ankle, I thoroughly shattered it then tried to set it myself and stand - twice - before realizing it was broken. Point being, it was in bad shape. After realizing what had happened, I called my wife who came out to help me while waiting for the EMT's.
I remember her at one point, in a very comforting manner, saying "It's hard to believe you can even recover from this kind of injury."
(To be fair, I guess she was the best kind of correct. It still plagues me to this day.)
our ability to cooperate & coordinate
Yeah, tying back to the original post about whether money is real or made up - that ability to come up with abstract concepts out of asses is what allows us to cooperate on such grand levels.
You might only personally know 100 people that you reasonably trust. But you don't need to personally know and trust someone in order to sell something to them. We all sort of magically agree that money has value and it allows us to transact with almost anyone.
Same thing with governments. A government isn't a real thing that you find in nature, but by believing in the concept of it, we're able to (somewhat) unify millions or billions of people to get shit done.
I guess what I'm saying is, don't discount the power of something just because it's not "real". Making up imaginary shit has got our species pretty damn far!
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
One could argue that since we are but merely very complicated, slow burning chemical reactions, that the very concept of "pretend" is pretend.
*tokes* duuuuuuuuude
load more comments
(11 replies)
easy: Pretend.
But it becomes real if everyone pretends.
It's real if you don't have enough, but pretend if you have too much.
I personally suspect that the belief that money is real is problematic, psychologically.
There are all sorts of experiments that show we treat money in our minds differently from most other things.
A famous example is that many people would think nothing of taking a ten cent pen from work, but would be abhorred at the idea of taking money, even ten cents, from petty cash and just keeping it.
An experiment has shown that, if you give people the chance to cheat for money, or to cheat for tokens that can be immediately exchanged for money after the experiment, they will cheat more for tokens, despite the fact that at that point, the tokens are technically a type of money.
So, this sort of thing makes me suspect that beliefs about money also influence our ethics and our mental proclivities. So maybe people who believe money is more real are more likely to hoard it or to have gambling problems.
If I steal a cheap pen, it's because I wanted a cheap pen. There's no deeper meaning to it. I'm not going to fence it for a fifteenth of a baguette at the bakery.
If I steal ten cents though, I break a much deeper taboo because money is by definition fungible. Why do I need the money, what am I going to use it for, and why didn't I empty the cash register while I was at it? These are all worryingly open questions.
Furthermore I reject the premise that stealing 10 cents is functionally equivalent to stealing a pen worth 10 cents; if anything, the premise that these are equivalent depends on a very debatable modern consumerist idea that commodities are perfectly interchangeable for money and/or the belief in a "rational actor" that has never existed outside of economics classes. Sure that may have been be valid if I was in charge of doing a bulk purchase of pens (and even then people aren't as rational as economists would like but I digress). These economics concepts are all too theoretical to apply to individual actors in everyday life.
That pen is "worthless" to my employer (at least in my mind) and simultaneously worth a lot to me; I wouldn't part with it for 10 cents or even 1 euro because that wouldn't be worth the inconvenience of not having a pen, or simply because the idea of someone wanting to buy something I own and didn't intend to sell is offensive to me.
I do agree with the basic premise that we treat money as special, but to me that's a natural and rational consequence of its fungible and abstract nature. It's much weirder to consider physical objects to be fungible IMO (even if it makes sense on an abstract level for commodities), and that's why the sentence "you'll own nothing and be happy" induces so much existential dread despite being based on theoretically sound economic principles. I don't care if it's actually cheaper or more resource efficient, I'm not buying a subscription to my woodworking tools or selling my house. I like the psychological safety of owning things.
load more comments
(3 replies)
From the movie 'The Magic Christian.'
Billionaire puts a swimming pool full of manure, blood, and other offal in the middle of the London financial district.
See what happens.
load more comments
(2 replies)
Idk, I've lectured my kids on monetary and economic policy enough that they know better than to ask that question.
The oldest is 10, but he just had to know why I dislike Trump, and you can't really get into why tariffs are bad without first explaining the fundamentals of supply and demand, as well as central banks managing monetary policy. They might not even be that far off if you ask them when the last fed rate hike was.
I wish I was joking, but I'm already in too deep with my conviction that I'll answer any question they have.
I'm in this boat with my kiddo, and like you I intend to give serious and honest answers for any questions (although occasionally I do say "I don't think you're quite ready for that topic yet", or I'll keep the details light and inform her of why).
It's been working out great, similar age to yours. She trusts me to give her real info no matter the topic (this is invaluable), she accepts when I tell her that she's probably not quite ready for XYZ, and the auxiliary benefit is that I'm forcing myself to get a bit more efficient even when I'm in --verbose mode.
ETA: we're also careful to tell her that we expect her to make her own opinions about everything and not just accept ours. That includes things like religious beliefs and politics when she decides to engage with those topics.
Awesome, you rock.
And yeah, I try to scope things down to their age level. If my kiddo is asking why I don't like a given politician, they don't need the whole rundown of their platform, just one or two bullet points to take back to their friends in a "but my dad said..." type argument. The same goes with sciency stuff, they usually don't care, they just want to win some argument (e.g. my older kids love telling my youngest that the sun is going to explode).
And yeah, when there are multiple sides, I'll try to explain them as best I can. If the issue isn't settled, I'll explain the various sides as best I can and tell them why I arrived at the conclusion I did, as well as how much I trust the evidence from each side. We haven't discussed it, but if we talk about global warming/climate change, I'll try to explain why one group says we need immediate change and the other wants a more measured approach, what impact it could have on the economy, etc, but in terms appropriate for their age level. If it seems they're at an impasse about something w/ a friend, I'll ask them to try to explain things from the other kid's perspective. And then we'll explore why they might feel that way, and why that's different from how my kid feels. That's usually enough for them to find some kind of compromise.
Hopefully that approach helps them understand that considering other points of view is valuable, but at the end of the day, they should follow the direction the facts lead them.
you can’t really get into why tariffs are bad without first explaining the fundamentals of supply and demand
Tariffs mean the government charges you extra when you buy something from another country. Do you like paying more for things?
Sure, like everything else, you can make it more and more complicated, but the fundamentals are pretty simple and don't require an understanding of supply and demand.
Why don't we just buy it from another country? Or just make it ourselves?
It turns out some countries produce a lot and other countries don't produce as much, so you can't just switch production to somewhere else overnight. That's where supply and demand comes in.
But yeah, I'm exaggerating a bit, and I definitely initially explain things according to their age level. Obviously 5yo doesn't need a full lecture on economics, but the 10yo can grasp a bit more.
Right, like I said, you can make it more and more complicated, depending if the kid wants more detail. I just don't think tariffs are any more complicated than any other subject. Everything gets complicated as you dig into it more and more.
Agreed. It's icebergs all the way down.
load more comments
(8 replies)
Yes.
Technically aren't a lot of things just societal concepts if you think hard enough about them?
Countries, slut shaming, office hours, time zones, dress codes...
load more comments
(4 replies)
It's real as in it has physical form, but the value attributed to it is playing pretend that everyone just agrees to go along with.
"why?"
"Because it's a lot easier to use paper and coins to exchange for goods and services than just about anything else."
"Woo-hoo!"
That is exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote "goods and services."
load more comments
(6 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Money is. Value isn't.
Value is. Money isn't
is isn't. Money Value
username checks out lol
btw i'm joking
load more comments
(1 replies)
If we agree that something is real then it's real. Proof is in the reward for agreeing and the punishment for disagreeing.
"Both"
Money isn't real but the idea everyone agrees on subconsciously is it is a medium of exchange.
You have a goat and I have 50 apples. You want my apples but I don't want your goat. OK. Bye bye, good luck finding the next customer.
Or
Sell the goat for the value of 50 apples, and then I can turn that into the new lamp I wanted instead.
Not everyone wants a goat but if you can float the value of something as an IOU (cash) then it's useful.
Same reason why people like crypto, it's the idea of cash but with math securing it's scarcity vs guns and vaults of gold.
load more comments
(5 replies)
It’s as real as a word is.
Its little more than a symbol of capitalist oppression. In a sense its all fake, the entire monetary system is entirely designed to pretend that a small group of elites who do not work create value.
view more: next ›