this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2024
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Unpopular Opinion

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This issue really evokes my emotions, because of how much I love sports. I think sports are a vitally important part of the human experience. I guess dance is, too, but we're not talking about dance, in and of itself.

Dance isn't a sport. Period. Ever. Nobody can change my mind about this. Dance is potentially expressive, beautiful, socially useful, entertaining, etc. But it IS NOT A FUCKING SPORT.

Only sports should be in the goddamned Olympics, and shoving non-sports into the mix is shameful and disgusting. It's a wad of spit in the face of every great athlete who has ever taken the field. It's a disgrace to the Ancient Greek tradition that the Olympics are attempting to continue.

I don't give a fuck that there are already competitions for breakdancing. Or ballroom dancing. People can hold competitions for whatever they want. I actually think competitions shouldn't be held for entirely subjective and artistic activities, but people can do whatever the fuck they want.

But not in the fucking Olympics. This shit makes me sick.

And before you start pointing out the other subjective, judged events that are already in the Olympics: THEY SHOULD ALL BE REMOVED, TOO. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. NONE OF THEM BELONG.

No more gymnastics (rhythmic or otherwise). No more figure skating and ice dancing. No more skateboarding. No more surfing. No more synchronized swimming. No more freestyle skiing. No more diving. No more BMX. No more ANYTHING that requires judging.

You might browbeat me into admitting that some of those subjectively judged activities are sports, but you will never convince me that they belong in the Olympics.

Olympic sports should be restricted to those which are determined by means of a clock, a measuring tape, the accumulation of OBJECTIVELY scored points, or a physical beating.

Even some of those should be on the chopping block. Some of the points-scoring events are too subjective. If a sport relies too much on fallible human judging, it should be excluded.

The vast majority of the events should be arbitrated only by the cold, merciless, absolute judgment of the clock or the measuring tape. Therein lies the truest purity of sport.

Honestly, the best thing to do would be to reset everything to the REAL tradition of the Olympics. Almost nothing, other than running, jumping, and fighting. With an absolute minimum of rules to get in the way, and all the athletes competing in the nude. Just sandals on their feet. No space-age materials to help anyone. Nothing for anyone to hide. Just human muscle and determination, on display at the greatest possible level.

But it's all a forlorn dream. Instead, we have to have our stomachs turned, as a bunch of revolting little shitheads wobble and headspin.

The ancient Olympians are going to be spinning in their fucking graves.

EDIT: YES, I AM AWARE THAT THE FIRST COUPLE MODERN OLYMPICS FEATURED NON-SPORT ACTIVITIES, LIKE SCULPTURE AND PAINTING. THAT DOESN'T CHANGE MY VIEW. INCLUDING ART IN THE MODERN OLYMPICS WAS A RIDICULOUS MISTAKE. JUST BECAUSE IT WAS DONE BEFORE DOESN'T MEAN IT SHOULD BE DONE NOW.

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[–] [email protected] 71 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Username does NOT check out.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 7 months ago

Honestly it never has, this dude has some of the worst takes and will never walk away from even a mild disagreement

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

Also, saying gymnastics don't belong in the Olympics is not just an unpopular opinion, it's crazy talk.

Like, in what world does one say that Simone Biles is not an Olympian.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Yeah, I've seen them around Lemmy a few times and they're always freaking out about something they're angrily wrong about 😄

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

Maybe imperative “chill, dude”

[–] [email protected] 38 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I love this thread. Chill Dude tell us more of your opinions we need content

[–] [email protected] 34 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I mean, that IS the purpose of the Unpopular Opinion community, right?

I'm not doing anything weird. I'm just doing it right.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

They've posted multiple essay length unpopular opinions here before.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 7 months ago

I'm reading through them now its amazing. Nothing political so far, nothing bad, just very strong opinions on relatively innocuous things and he's managing to make so many people angry... He's like an artist

[–] [email protected] 33 points 7 months ago

I kinda love how mad you are about this

[–] [email protected] 32 points 7 months ago (3 children)

Best unpopular opinion post I've seen so far.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It’s a disgrace to the Ancient Greek tradition that the Olympics are attempting to continue.

JUST BECAUSE IT WAS DONE BEFORE DOESN’T MEAN IT SHOULD BE DONE NOW.

That's a contradiction. Also, the ancient greeks didn't have the concept of sport were super into dancing - spartans especially - so this whole argument is void.

I'm sorry that something you say you enjoy (the olympics) makes you so angry.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Just wait till he finds out that the ancient Greeks didn't have a winter Olympics

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago (2 children)

What if we measured who could breakdance the furthest.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Oh, shit. Now we're talking. The 10,000 meter headspin would legitimately be the greatest distance race of all time. It would probably have a non-zero fatality rate, but that's not my problem.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Pop-and-lock-a-thon anybody?

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[–] southsamurai 19 points 7 months ago

Whew, this left spittle on my screen from the sheer, unhinged rage of the typing :)

Legit though, solid unpopular opinion!

But dude, gymnastics is a core sport going back to the minoans. And there were trumpet competitions back in the older Olympiads. Trumpet champions existed, and were determined by judges.

Hate to break it to you, but as much as I also dislike subjective sports competition, the Olympians of old would not be spinning in their graved.

Now, I agree that there has to be some limit to what is and isn't an actual Olympic event. And I'm not a big fan of judged events in general; they should be demonstrations, performances rather than competitions because they'd be better that way, you'd see cooler shit being done by peak human athletes.

But you might as well insist that only men compete if you're going to try and use the pan Hellenic games as your standard.

My Olympic pet peeve is about how damn hard it is to find coverage of most individual sports. You might get lucky here and there seeing highlights of archery or biathlon, or stuff like judo. But they'll show entire soccer matches without cutting away for anything but commercials. That's infuriating to me. I'd rather watch hours of break dancing because it's at least about the athleticism of the competitors rather than some team where even the best individuals get over shadowed.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (7 children)

I think all sports have more subjectivity than you are admitting. How often have you heard someone yell at an umpire or referee seen as unfair?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (5 children)

Obviously you're never going to escape the subjectivity of events in which humans participate and the application of those rules, unless we want to just program machines to compete for us.

I think a better approach to what OP is saying is that there shouldn't be a competition in the Olympics where the method of scoring itself requires subjective determination.

  • Basketball: you throw the ball through the hoop, you get points.

  • Football: you get the ball in this cage, you get a point

  • Freedom Football: you get the ball over this line, you get points.

  • Baseball: you circle the diamond, you get a point.

  • Curling: your rock, uh... lands in a circle I guess? And that gives you a point, or points?

  • Cricket: you... run between posts?

Etc.

Point is, while each of the above does require some amount of subjective judgement to determine if each team/competitor is following the rules, the winner of the game usually doesn't depend on it.

Compare that to, say, figure skating or high diving or gymnastics, where the score depends completely on how well other people think a competitor did.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Gymnastics, high diving, etc. have a very strict scoring system as well. There's a very objective way to score how things are done, it just looks subjective to people who weren't involved in those sports.

Most sports look weird and subjective if you were unfamiliar with the rules, but after many decades, are extremely codified and much more objective than they appear.

Anyone that wants things to be simpler or more pure probably don't understand the reasoning and history behind the rules.

That being said, like any rule set, a lot can be gained from starting from scratch. You just need to have a deep understanding of the way things are in the first place, otherwise you'd be making a lot of the same mistakes.

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[–] zaph 18 points 7 months ago

First of all well done at posting an unpopular opinion. Are you aware how much you've contradicted yourself?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herald_and_Trumpet_contest

In the 96th Olympiad (396 BC), beside the athletic and artistic competitions, the Herald and Trumpet contest was added, which was already a formal element of the Olympic ritual performed by the kerykes (heralds) and salpinktai (trumpeters). Winners were chosen by the clarity of the enunciation and the audibility of their voice or horn blast.

Also breakdancing is awesome. Hope they add beatboxing soon.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 months ago (12 children)

This is a very thorough and well thought out post.

I couldn't disagree with it more regarding the modern olympics (I think there's a lot of value in subjectivity judged sports as well as objectively judged), but I respect your reasoning, and would love to see a revival of the ancient olympics like you propose. So why not both? Keep the modern commercial games their own thing (because at this point there's too much money in it for anyone to stop it) but bring back the traditional Greek games.

Completely separate thought: which category does boxing fall into? Matches are often won through points given by judges. Actually that's the same with wrestling, a traditional olympic event.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago

OP repeatedly attacks boxing while praising pankration. The rationale? Pankration "doesn't have scoring," which is a patently false claim based on my 3 minutes of googling.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

Chill, dude

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Personally I wouldn't mind the Olympics going back to being an excuse to watch oiled up naked muscley guys do things like in ancient Greece. But I do think dance would go really well with that.

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[–] RidgeDweller 10 points 7 months ago

Good unpopular opinion! I'm skeptical the modern games/organization would survive if you tossed the judged events out though. And a quick search shows there were a few subjective events in ancient games, too. Maybe there's another organization with competitions that suit your interests better?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago

You do you, man, but I feel like getting this het up over a competition you'll never be involved in, have any control over, or be forced to watch, is kind of a waste of lifespan. Are you happier for it? Healthier? Wealthier? Kinda seems like it's just burning more than one second off your life per second for no benefit.

Also, tradition is just peer pressure from dead people, and they told me in school not to give in to peer pressure. We didn't have breakdancing as an event, and now we do. The only constant is change.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

I agree with this opinion.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, the *best* thing to do would be to reset everything to the REAL tradition of the Olympics. Almost nothing, other than running, jumping, and fighting. With an absolute minimum of rules to get in the way, and all the athletes competing in the nude. Just sandals on their feet.

OK I’m listening

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (3 children)

You mentioned fighting as acceptable, but boxing has judges?

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

In the comments, you talk a lot about judges. So, baseball should be banned too, right? Since balls and strikes are a human call? And of course, they have to call people safe or out, sometimes determine if a ball actually left the park, etc.

And basketball, would every shot be worth the same number of points, since we don’t have judges to say whether someone was behind the 3 point line?

And any sports would be a free-for-all with no penalties? Since judges make those calls, right? Sure, you can call them umpires or refs, but they are still judges.

And fighting would require a complete knockout to win? What if someone lays down and pretends because they don’t want to fight any more? Who makes that call? You need to objectively knockout (or maybe you want killing?) to win. I’m just confused as to how that works without a judge.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Hah just do what I do and don't give a shit about the Olympics. Unless there's some really cool opening ceremony I'm not watching any of it. England had the best one I've ever seen.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

How do you feel about subjective refereeing and following the letter not the spirit (eg basketball refs or using fouls intentionally)?

[–] Tar_alcaran 4 points 7 months ago

Or ski jump, where your score is added to your distance.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (14 children)

There are multiple Olympic sports that are essentially forms of acrobatic dance. Figure skating, the gymnastics floor exercise and rhythm gymnastics come to mind

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (4 children)

Couple of questions… Why does it matter to you that some people consider it a sport? Does the very idea being contrary to your opinion, make the sports you consider as such any less sports? The first antique olympics had horse racing. Where does shooting, curling, archery, golf, equestrian, etc, fit in this definition? If no, why does dance bother you so much all of a sudden, and why not as much anger towards them?

What’s that “Ancient Greek tradition” you seem to want to protect the purity of, and why does or should it matter? There’s been events that were added, tested out, and many removed subsequently, throughout the olympics’ history. It’s not the first time some event doesn’t make unanimity as far as everyone liking the event. Some people threw a hissy fit when snowboarding and later skateboarding were included, for example. Who gets to decide if an event fits in there? Is the practice of trying it out and reevaluating next olympics that terrible?

It’s not like modern olympics are some sacred and pure untouchable event underlining human performance for the sake of it. Unless you've avoided the subject on purpose, which would be surprising considering your position here, the CIO itself isn’t made out of saints doing it all for the love of sports either…

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Yikes.

I'm going to choose to focus on your username and laugh. I dunno if you are that unaware, or incredibly self-aware.

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