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The US government is going to do literally everything it can other than provide universal Healthcare until the country collapses.
Wait you're telling me this isn't what they meant by safety nets??
The physical, not social kind. "We'll catch you when you fall... this is not a metaphor."
I'm pretty sure California is in the process of implementing its own state-funded healthcare system.
It's the way to do it, just like with legalizing drugs.
For real. It would be interesting to see the average financial depth of the people who attempt suicide in the US.
This reminds me of the time San Francisco decided to do something about it's human-feces-in-the-BART-escalator-wells problem, not by making public restrooms available to unsheltered folk, but building stupid awnings to keep people from pooping inside. The awnings cost more than the toilets would have and people just pooped on the sidewalks instead. ℹ️🫶🌉😀
Curious since I'm not familiar, how do the awnings prevent this? I went to SF a few years ago and there was a giant pile of human shit every 4 blocks so I'm not too surprised.
They basically close off the street level entrance when the transit isn't running. The escalators used to be open at the top and closed at the bottom during off hours, making a lovely little private pooping tunnel. The city budget people didn't GAF about the bio hazard or human dignity issues, they just didn't like that all the excrement kept breaking the escalators.
Old article from before they implemented them (the article mentions the budget proposal being $4 million, it's turned into $64 million and counting).
Friedenbach balked at the canopy proposal. “I find it interesting that they’re spending this much money on canopies when they could be using it to keep their bathrooms open.” More so, the money could be used for keeping the high-traffic drop-in centers operational. A few years back, San Francisco, under former-mayor Gavin Newsom’s authority, sought to cut over a million dollars in funding for many of the city’s highest-traffic drop-in centers. The Coalition for Homelessness wouldn’t stand for it. “We’d already seen almost half of the centers close,” Friedenbach recalled, “so we figured out how many pounds of feces the public facilities kept off the street.” Friedenbach and company estimated that the cost of cutting back or getting rid of drop-in centers altogether would be over 58,000 pounds of human feces on the streets of San Francisco.
[...]
Regarding the four million dollars spent on the canopy proposal, Friedenbach said, “You could capture a large amount of feces [with bathrooms], instead of the one shit a night you might be staving off with this.”
This guy Friedenbach sounds like he knows his shit.
Reminds me of that Bojack Horseman poem.
"But this is it, the deed is done silence drowns the sound. Before I leaped I should've seen the view from halfway down.
I really should’ve thought about the view from halfway down. I wish I could've known about the view from halfway down—"
Love the NIMBY ass “we don’t want effective barriers to keep people from jumping because then we cant see the view, so put in an invisible torture device that will horribly maim and punish people already so far gone they’ve decided to end it” approach. Really sums up San Francisco. Why don’t they just install a fucking Suicide Booth at each end of the bridge. They clearly aren’t after stopping attempts, they just don’t want to look at it. Easier to find a corpse in the human fishing net 20 feet down than trolling the bay.
The nets — placed 20 feet (6 meters) down from the bridge’s deck — are not visible from cars crossing the bridge. But pedestrians standing by the rails can see them. They were built with marine-grade stainless steel that can withstand the harsh environment that includes salt water, fog and strong winds
20 foot drop onto "nets" made of stainless steel? I feel like this may still be a fatal fall.
Edit: I'm not negative on the idea, but it sounds like you are still having a pretty bad time if one of these nets saves your life.
Stainless steel can be woven into a net that would break the fall, I don't know if that's how it works but it would be possible.
I just read a guardian article about it, it's actually kind of fucked up:
The nets are meant to deter people from jumping and to curb the death rate of those who still attempt to jump, though they will likely be badly injured.
“It’s stainless-steel wire rope netting, so it’s like jumping into a cheese grater,” Dennis Mulligan, the general manager of the bridge district, told the Associated Press. “It’s not soft. It’s not rubber. It doesn’t stretch. We want folks to know that if you come here, it will hurt if you jump.”
Notice it says CURB the death rate, which sounds like they anticipate some people will still die? Jesus ffs.
Yeah that's pretty fucked up. Sounds like the punishment for trying to kill yourself is intentional maiming or possible death. Sheesh.
Now I am kinda negative on the idea.
We make fun of China for installing similar nets on their buildings. Maybe we can consider some time actually doing something about the cause of suicide rather than just stopping the action. Healthcare, especially mental healthcare, poverty, housing. But no, just nets.
But golden gate doesn't have anything inherent that pushes people to commit suicide. I feel like it's wasted money if the only thing this means is that this will happen somewhere else, what's the point then? Wouldn't it be spent better on mental healthcare for those who need it the most?
Edit 0: (I'm not super angry that they did install the nets, sure why not, it's not that expensive anyways, but I don't really feel like it solves the real issue. I'm mostly talking from my opinions and I don't have that many facts on this topic, maybe tackling suicide hot-spots does indeed reduce the statistic, I sincerely hope so but I doubt it)
Edit 1: After reading the article https://archive.is/Uuyx3 suggested by @[email protected] I feel like I was wrong in my initial assessment. Indeed it looks like there is a category of impulsive suicide that might be avoided with these barriers. I thank everyone who is contributing solid arguments to this difficult conversation. Despite the disagreements I see on the comments I believe we are all united in the feeling that this is a painful tragedy that we don't want to be part of this world
But golden gate doesn't have anything inherent that pushes people to commit suicide.
Don't be so sure about that. Check out some of this research.
Believe it or not, reducing access to lethal means actually reduces the number of deaths by suicide, and we have robust data to back this up.
"Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature. A literature review (Owens 2002) summarized 90 studies that have followed over time people who have made suicide attempts that resulted in medical care. Approximately 7% (range: 5-11%) of attempters eventually died by suicide, approximately 23% reattempted non-fatally, and 70% had no further attempts."
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/survival/
We ALSO need to improve people's material conditions and provide better mental health care. But even in societies with strong social safety nets, people still die by suicide. Reducing access to lethal means will reduce deaths, giving people time and opportunity to access any social safety net that exists.
There's one particularly fascinating case study out of Washington state:
"Running perpendicular to the Ellington Bridge, a stone’s throw away, is another bridge, the Taft. Both span Rock Creek, and even though they have virtually identical drops into the gorge below - about 125 feet - it is the Ellington that has always been notorious as Washington’s “suicide bridge.” By the 1980s, the four people who, on average, leapt from its stone balustrades each year accounted for half of all jumping suicides in the nation’s capital. The adjacent Taft, by contrast, averaged less than two.
After three people leapt from the Ellington in a single 10-day period in 1985, a consortium of civic groups lobbied for a suicide barrier to be erected on the span. Opponents to the plan...had the added ammunition of pointing to the equally lethal Taft standing just yards away: if a barrier were placed on the Ellington, it was not at all hard to see exactly where thwarted jumpers would head.
Except the opponents were wrong. A study conducted five years after the Ellington barrier went up showed that while suicides at the Ellington were eliminated completely, the rate at the Taft barely changed, inching up from 1.7 to 2 deaths per year. What’s more, over the same five-year span, the total number of jumping suicides in Washington had decreased by 50 percent, or the precise percentage the Ellington once accounted for."
And you know why twice as many people jumped off the Ellington vs. the Taft bridge in the first place? Because the railings on the Taft were slightly higher and therefore harder to scale.
I don't know if this article is paywalled or how to fix that, but it also contains details of a specific study conducted on people who intended to, but didn't jump off the Golden Gate bridge specifically. The absurdity of how minor an obstacle was required to prevent their deaths is amazing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/06/magazine/06suicide-t.html
Woops, looks like I'm wrong in my comment!
Thank you so much for sharing the NY article, I still need to read it more times and take notes! For other people interested, it can be read at https://archive.is/Uuyx3. I definitely wasn't aware of this impulsive behavior when it came to suicide and the low rate of re-attempt that follows. I was surprised when I read the following:
In a 2001 University of Houston study of 153 survivors of nearly lethal attempts between the ages of 13 and 34, only 13 percent reported having contemplated their act for eight hours or longer. To the contrary, 70 percent set the interval between deciding to kill themselves and acting at less than an hour, including an astonishing 24 percent who pegged the interval at less than five minutes
I had a vision of suicide where it happened in a more nihilistic and complex way, or at least, something veery different from deciding you would kill yourself in 5~ minutes. I also wasn't aware that 2000 people had died at the golden gate, it does indeed sound like many of these cases are rushed or not premeditated. More importantly, the "Ellington barrier" example is a solid argument to install such barriers
I encourage others interested on the topic to read the article!
“Nine out of ten people who attempt suicide and survive will not go on to die by suicide at a later date. This has been well-established in the suicidology literature. A literature review (Owens 2002) summarized 90 studies that have followed over time people who have made suicide attempts that resulted in medical care. Approximately 7% (range: 5-11%) of attempters eventually died by suicide, approximately 23% reattempted non-fatally, and 70% had no further attempts.”
I am one of those nine. It is absolutely true. As you are dying, you realize what a mistake you're making. I'm glad I survived.
People actually travel to San Fran specifically to jump off that bridge because it is iconic.
meeting resistance from people who did not want to alter the iconic landmark
Well this attitude leads to not only increased homelessness, buy I guess also suicide rates 🙁
I mean, there's a solution that doesn't involve altering the landmark, but would those people support actually fixing the problem?
Ensuring people's basic needs are met and they have access to mental health support is a lot more difficult than putting an unsightly band-aid on the problem.
There is a pretty harrowing documentary about people jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge. Apparently it happens so often that if you set up a camera, after long enough you will catch lots of people considering it and doing it.
I think it's called "The Bridge"? It was on YouTube when I watched it years ago, dunno if it's still there. Maybe someone else will find it. But heads up, it's not exactly a fun watch.
So, now you just need to jump from the net after it catches you? That does not seem like much of a barrier.
every barrier helps, most suicide attempts are impulse decisions. forcing people to jump 30 feet into a net before they can jump a lethal distance makes it that much harder to follow through.
100%.
Several people have jumped into them. Some have been rescued from there, but “a handful” had “jumped into the net and then jumped to their death,” Mulligan said.
He declined to say how many. It will take a year or two of data to fully understand the system’s effectiveness, he said.
In the decade beginning in 2011, bridge officials said, there were 335 confirmed suicides, or an average of 33.5 per year. In 2022, as the first nets were being strung, there were 22. Through October this year, as more nets have been added, there were 13.
“If we save 30 lives a year, and not 31, it’s worth it for those 30 people who we saved,” Mulligan said. “And that’s every year. To greatly reduce the number of people dying in the community is a worthy goal. And to achieve that is success.”
Think of the first fall as a "proof of concept". If after falling ~20 feet to a chain link fence, you still feel like dragging your injured self to the edge of the fence to finish the job, then it's highly unlikely anything will stop you from killing yourself. The fence is kind of a "try before you buy" thing.
Holy shit, 6m down onto inflexible steel mesh. For reference, a 5 meter diving platform is significantly higher than a normal American high dive. That would really fucking hurt. But it would save your life.
Well, there goes my vacation plans this year.