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I am more shocked by people supporting Biden's action than the action itself
It really shows how fucked up and desperate the American political discourse is at this point IMO. Before it was "see how much integrity Biden has for not even pardoning his own son", now it's turned into "Hunter was a political prisoner and victim of unjust persecution" in an instant. No one is willing to admit any faults because the other side gleefully profits from them. I can understand why people do it, but it's a worrying indication for the state of politics in America.
To be fair, the biggest charge is the gun charge, and that's from lying on the 4473.
Honestly, that question shouldn't even be on the form, and I know loads of people who lie on that form, same question, all the time.
Weed is legal, but if you admit it, you can't buy a firearm to defend yourself from fash.
But, you can be a drunk, mow down kids in your SUV, and that's dandy.
Habitual Drunkard is also on that form as a disqualifier, so you would have to lie about that as well if you were a drunk.
No it isn't. Look here:
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4473-part-1-firearms-transaction-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download
Nowhere is "being a drunk" a DQ for owning a gun. Hell, being drunk, while buying the gun doesn't preclude you.
I could read that to include being an alcoholic. But I can also read it as being addicted to caffeine.
Yes, alcohol is technically a depressant, but I guarantee that the majority of people who sign that form don't know that.
It also says, "or any other controlled substance", implying that the list is made up of controlled substances, which alcohol is not.
I think a good lawyer could argue that alcohol doesn't count here, but no lawyer could ever argue that marijuana doesn't count, as it is specifically listed.
Okay, calm down Utah. It's a federal form.
It depends on if you assume controlled substance applied to every item on the list or if being addicted to any simulant would count. How I read it, if alcohol counts, so does caffeine.
One of many reasons it a bad law and unconstitutional.
So how about Biden just fixes that form and claim that it shouldn’t have been illegal to do that to begin with?
He literally is saying it was BS and I’ll undo it for just my son, the rest of Americans in the same situation I don’t care about.
Because it literally requires congress to do it.
And the rest of Americans rarely get charged for it... Its only used as an "add on" when there's other charges already.
Because Republicans have no appetite to change the form. They like it this way, most people who break the law will never be prosecuted, but when they want to prosecute someone it's easy
That may all be perfectly true, but my point was more about how this case was treated by the democrats and their supporters. After the verdict, few people raised the points you just did. Instead, the narrative was all about how unlike republicans, democrats respected the law and would fully support the verdict. Biden himself even publicly ruled out a pardon.
Now that the pardon actually happened, that is all immediately forgotten. The narrative changed and democrats expect their supporters to get in line. Trumpists have been doing that kind of thing every other day, but the democrats are starting to do it as well. That's what worries me.
It worries you?
This is the line that worries you?
Not the line drawn where the SCOTUS said the POTUS is above the law?
Not the line drawn where a literal card carrying neonazi was appointed to the cabinet?
Not the line drawn by Reich Wingers attempting a violent coup?
Not the line drawn by literal Nazis marching in the streets in the US just this year?
THIS is your moral line?
Outrage is what we should have all seen when Donald Trainwreck pardoned this corrupt Democratic governor for the sole reason of normalizing corruption. There is no Democrat who wanted him to do this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich
Anybody who didn't complain about that way more serious thing doesn't have any reason to complain about this much less serious thing.
I can be worried about more than one thing at a time mate. And where did I ever say anything about a moral line? I obviously don't approve of the fascist things the fascist party does and yes, they deeply worry me, despite not even living in the US. That doesn't mean that the democrats are somehow absolved of all criticism and can't do anything wrong.
So, overall, in the list of things that "worry you" this is so low, it barely registers, right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Blagojevich
Does Donald Trainwreck's pardon of this corrupt Democratic governor worry you? Did it register at all with you? No? The fact that people didn't care about this makes me yawn about anybody saying they care about Hunter Biden's way less serious thing get a pardon.
Obviously the bigger immediate problems will be what Trump gets up to in the next few years. But if there's supposed to be a way out of this mess at some point, I think it's also important for the democrats to be a strong opposition. They should provide an antithesis to Trumpist politics by showing honesty, integrity and consistency. Their justification for doing things should never be "but Trump did way worse". Saying one thing and doing another might work out perfectly for Trump, but that doesn't mean it will for the democrats. That may be unfair, but it is how it is. So the real worry is that I don't think acting this way will win them another election, should there even be one.
There is only one way out of fascism, and it's not by playing nice. Non-violent methods only work if the opposition has a conscience.
Didn't say they should play nice. But a bit of nepotism definitely won't contribute to getting out of fascism. Nor will justifying things based on whether the fascists are doing worse or trying to copy their oppenent's tactics. All that will do is making people lose faith in their movement.
People have already lost faith in the Dems... Why do you think so many people stayed home?
Starting? If there's one thing people should learn from the 2024 election, it's that Blue MAGA exists and they're just as stupid and easily manipulated as the people on the right.
I got attacked a lot for speaking of "blue MAGA". But this is an aspect of it. The Republicans managed to push their fanatic cult of personality, rally around the leader, no mistakes are made, critics are opponents and need to be kicked out kind of political "culture" into parts of the Democratic base.
But this is a kind of "dont wrestle a pig in the mud" situation. By adopting the Republicans culture and way of thinking, it gives them further strength.
We need to accept that "they go low, we go high" isn't working and pivot to "they go low, we step on them".
We shouldn't be abiding by the rules and precedent they willfully ignore. We too can play dirty.
But we've lost if the DNC ever succumbs to a strongman cult of personality like the Republicans did. Where if you don't lick the boot you're a Democrat in name only.
I never said Biden had integrity and I fully support this pardon because it was an absolute political witch hunt. Biden talked a big game but he continued the liberal tradition of giving money to large corporations and rich people instead of small businesses and the working class. Anyone that expected integrity wasn't paying attention.
I am more shocked by you not fully realizing a year ago that this was exactly what was going to happen than anything Biden did. Hunter Biden was prosecuted for something that likely nobody else would have been.
I support it. This as miscarriage as a miscarriage of justice gets. A politically motivated investigation turns unfiled taxes and a gun law that could imprison half the country (smoke a joint after going to a range and you're guilty too) into a politically rejected plea deal and 25 years in prison?
That's a fucking nightmare not justice. He should be on an IRS payment plan and monitoring for drugs. That's the normal outcome.
I'm very torn about it. I don't think he would have done it if Kamala won. I can totally see Trump trying to get Hunter beheaded, so in that way I'm fine with what Biden did.
The same way Trump totally locked Hillary up after he won in 2016 right?
He had guardrails last time. I want to go to sleep come January 20th at this point and not wake up.
Absolutely. It's turned into /r/TheJoe around here. Pretty disappointed in all those cheering on this shit just because it's their team.
I support it.
Americans explicitly voted for blatant corruption.
Now they're going to get it.
We're just getting what we voted for.
I'm shocked by all the ardent leftists taking gun ownership, drug use, and law enforcement very seriously.
Next to nobody's thrilled about this. But given the context, it's difficult to give a shit.
I honestly don't give a flying fuck if he pardibs his son or not. It's not like Trump was going to pardon him along with the J6 people.
Using Trump as a litmus test for good behavior proves you are a simple hypocrite.