So he halted the march before reaching Moscow. Took a deal where he goes to Belarus and no one gets prosecuted. And then everything carries on as normal? What was the point of this then?
this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2023
72 points (97.4% liked)
World News
38262 readers
3090 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Memes
The only thing I can think of is he actually thought he was going to be killed and now thinks he won't? Ideologically he said a lot about wasted resources and lives and generals with no experience or planning, yadda yadda but until we see a true shake up of military leadership, nothing will change. It doesn't matter if it's shoigu or Putin himself, there is no experienced leadership for a war like this so nothing will change
Yeah it's hard to see how this benfits both parties. They'll never trust each other again, so now they'll both be plotting against each other...
Maybe he's in a lose lose situation. Chose the balcony exit.
"When you play the game of thrones, you either win or you die."
I am very sceptical of this. Lukashenko brokered a deal? He's a Putin puppet, why would Prigozhin cut a deal with him? What would that deal look like? Does Prigozhin become head of the MoD or Putins designated successor? He's right there outside Moscow, he has the leverage, why would he blink?
Putin called him a traitor, an enemy of the state, why would Putin back down from that point, he already looks weak, why look weaker via a U-turn? Prigozhin must know he's a dead man if he backs down, he knows the play book, why would he trust in the deal?
Was the whole thing a psy-op to give Putin an out? Was the voice recording that is the ultimate source of all this a Russian State propaganda play? Is it a play by Wagner to buy time to consolidate his forces before he moves on Moscow? But then, he has to be the one to move fast and hard...
Whatever is going on, we don't know. Next 5-24hrs will be key.
Yeah, and we’re going to need a Top Hour option on Lemmy. This Top Day cycle clearly exceeds world event pace by at least an order of magnitude.
What if this is all an elaborate ruse to redeploy Wagner to Ukraine's northern border?
Prigozhin is pissed off at Russia's Ministry of Defense. He thinks they suck. Russian MoD is pissed off at Wagner. They really wish Prighozin would forget his social media passwords and STFU. Prigozhin "mutinies" by taking Rostov-on-Don. A couple of MoD choppers were supposedly shot down, but for the large part, very few casualties. Putin looks angry. Claims to have been "stabbed in the back". Lukashenko of Belarus "brokers a peaceful resolution", and Pregozhin and his Wagnerites agree to go to Belarus.
... in exile? I doubt it.
This looks like a winning situation for everyone concerned. Russian MoD finally get the Wagnerites out of their hair. Wagner ends up in Belarus for a much-needed resupply of equipment and perhaps some Belarusan soldiers / convicts. Putin saves face. Lukashenko looks competent.
What if Wagner subsequently decides to re-enter the fray, but this time from Ukraine's northern border? Kyiv and Lviv are closer to Belarus than they are to Russia.
Hmmm....
In no way is Prigozhin and Wagner going to be allowed to threaten the Russian State again...
Expect them to be redeployed in Africa and the mid-east.
Attached least in the short term.....
it's not the soldiers going to Belarus, it was only offered to pregozhin himself... if this is on the level
it’s not the soldiers going to Belarus, it was only offered to pregozhin himself… if this is on the level
I would be surprised if Pregozhin voluntarily abandons what makes him indispensable to Putin. Without his armed forces, Pregozhin is just an impotent loudmouth in a sea of impotent loudmouths. He's setting himself up for defenestration if he goes that route.
Agreed. The situation there is absolutely unbelievable for me. Too much nonesense happening.
There is more to this than what meets the eye...
The leader of the only effective Russian fighting force in UA is retiring to the place Russia just sent their tactical nukes after trying a coup...
strong vibes of "Your loved ones are in my custody Back off now or ..."
I'm convinced Prigozhin believed he was a dead man already and decided to go out with a bang. The chances of success were just too slim, it just feels like a final gambit.
If he believed he was bound to fail in Ukraine and bound to fail in Moscow, wouldn't the latest news suggest he has even fewer options than he had before? He's backed himself into a corner surely?
I'm not sure what you mean.
But apparently, the deal entails him moving to Belarus and not being persecuted.
So, if my assessment is correct, which is a big if, he went from Putin putting a mark on him to an at least decent chance of surviving in Belarus, by pulling this hail Mary.
If that's truly the deal he took, he's cemented himself as a fool of historic proportions and he will die in predictable fashion in Belarus (if he ever makes it).
he went from Putin putting a mark on him to an at least decent chance of surviving in Belarus, by pulling this hail Mary
That's not how Russia works. Now he can never stand near a window, cliff or staircase, or drink tea.
I disagree, the more that comes out, the more I'm convinced its a jostling for power kinda vibe. If he's walked away without securing loyalists at FSB, MoI, AND MoD he's a dead man and he has to know that. You can't get into a powerful position in Russia and not know that. If so, then with FSB, MoI and MoD loyal to him he runs Russia in all but name.
The only way this makes any sense is if there's an active coup against Putin, Lukashenko is in on it, and convinced him to pause while the Kremlin takes out Putin, to avoid him having to fight other Russians.
Something happened behind the scenes..
Probably threatened his family.
they must have seen the popcorn sales numbers skyrocketing.
Bummer. Was hoping they'd wipe eachother out and end this damn war.
Whatever Lukashenko said to him must have been pretty damn good.
I wonder if he can do that at this point. What on earth can they promise him that guarantees his safety? The only way that he doesn’t get assassinated is if he overthrows the government.
I wonder the same thing. No shot he gets a free pass to march on Moscow and call for the execution of military leadership. If I had to guess I'd say they're taking this as an opportunity to rest their troops, but who knows. This whole thing has been nuts
What channel was the audio recording? We need to get deepfake specialists on this right away, the audio only is suspicious, and Russia has every reason to try and stop popular support
Prigozhin has done audio only before, but you are right. I believe the channel was the Concordgroup official one.
This would be interesting if its actually deepfake it would be the first case used in conflict.
I wonder what they offered him.
Sounds like they offered him a way out. If he truly engaged the Russian military in Moscow, he would have stalemated or lost, and would remain a target forever
Exile in Belarus though doesn't sound super safe either
As another commenter mentioned, they may have already been gunning for him (literally), so this was an elaborate exercise in saving his own life
Prigozhin was being politically displaced by the Ministry of Defense. His only hope was to displace the Ministry of Defense right back. Putin and the rest of the military didn't bite, and Prigozhin's position was strategically untenable. Maybe he could have taken Moscow, but everyone important had already left, and he couldn't hold Moscow once he had it. So he accepted exile over a fight to his certain death, because he's a mercenary and mercenaries don't die for a cause.
I get the feeling Putin probably rounded up Prig's family as well. I thought his daughter was in St Petersburg.
This is like when they were hyping the Crabfeeder as a formidable character.
This is so bizarre. I can’t image what was said by Lukashenko. Surely there’s no going back from this for Wagner. This morning he either succeeded or he was a dead man. Either this simply manoeuvring on his part or something scared him more then what he was already going into.
He hates bloodshed.......
I'll add that he didn't comment on whether the march would be resumed later or not. They could be resting their troops, or they could be turning around completely. I don't think we have more information than that at this point
I thought he said they (Wagner) are returning to Ukraine. I don't know if I believe it, but that's what I thought he said.
Yeah. What the morning will bring is a different thing.
Oh boy, that dude will definitely have a base jumping without parachute accident in the very near future.
More like he found out those that promised to help him chickened out.
What if that was an AI imitating Prigozhin's voice?
Must've got near a window
view more: next ›