this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2024
299 points (97.8% liked)

Technology

58833 readers
4556 users here now

This is a most excellent place for technology news and articles.


Our Rules


  1. Follow the lemmy.world rules.
  2. Only tech related content.
  3. Be excellent to each another!
  4. Mod approved content bots can post up to 10 articles per day.
  5. Threads asking for personal tech support may be deleted.
  6. Politics threads may be removed.
  7. No memes allowed as posts, OK to post as comments.
  8. Only approved bots from the list below, to ask if your bot can be added please contact us.
  9. Check for duplicates before posting, duplicates may be removed

Approved Bots


founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (2 children)

The central project of open-source community closes doors to people based on nationality, and everyone is cheering...

Why? You seriously miss the implications of breaking the very basic principles of open source? You are ready to forgive literally anything if it is claimed to target Russia or Russians in any way?

For those of you who say about backdoors:

  • US is known to create the most complicated spy networks with myriads of backdoors. Where are the bans of the US maintainers?
  • Israel is a literal powerhouse of state-sanctioned spying software - Pegasus, as well as many less renowned programs, was created here. Any bans, anyone?
  • China is known for invasive software. Maybe ban them all too?

The only reasonable way to avoid backdoors is to meticulously check the submitted code. Threat actors can be anywhere - and Russia is not some unique threat location, nor was it banned with that justification - just "compliance requirements".

This is politics permeating the sacred place we all had. This is a giant threat to the community, and the way Linus framed it in his message is even more terrifying. This was never meant to happen.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Torvalds responses make clear he has spent too much time with the wrong people. Calling everyone paid actors is such an embarrassment to his own intelligence. When the linux kernel starts falling behind because of a lack of competent maintainers after banning any country that NATO isnt friends with, we will know that this is where it started and that people cheered.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 hour ago

Yeah, arguing that everyone disagreeing is a paid Russian troll is a cherry on top.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (3 children)

It's really awesome to expel by nationality, even of people who've long moved out and immigrated years ago and don't support the invasion and war waged on Ukraine /s

Honestly fuck Russia ofc, but this goes a bit too far into the grey area between hawkish-reasonable and discriminatory, and on the latter side I'm not sure who and/or what this is meant to help, nor does it seem particularly fair to those individual contributors to keep their code yet remove attribution and mailing list entries.

EDIT: holy shit the bloodlust in the comments here is actually unreal, even on arr slash neoliberal and the politics communities here on lemmy the comments are way more sane.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

Why are people so fundamentally incapable of nuanced judgement. According to people in this comment section, a human is entirely defined by their country of origin. What is this witch hunt level, toddler IQ thinking. Are people really so desperate to have a "bad guy" that they can blame everything on? This dehumanization of people is wild to me.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

a human is entirely defined by their country of origin

This reeks of Americanism, yanks are absurdly obsessed with race and nationality

[–] [email protected] 1 points 43 minutes ago* (last edited 42 minutes ago)

The irony of your comment is not lost on me.

But yeah if you were to measure a country by its loudest voices then that would be accurate.

[–] freeman 2 points 31 minutes ago

It's disappointing behavior by Linus. It's understandable that sanctions could force the removal of people just for being Russia.

His reply however shows he personally is in favor of removing people just for being Russian.

I wonder if any of the people who pressured him to take some time off for being a "jerk" will give a shit for this response.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 45 minutes ago (1 children)

Russia represent Russian citizens the same way the US represent US citizens. If you're an US citizen and you think US international actions look bad on you then tough luck. Being a citizen of a specific state comes with its own responsibilities and consequences. If Russian nationals have long moved out of Russia and migrated elsewhere and don't support anything Russia does, why are they still Russian citizens? If they don't want to get sanctioned and they've long migrated from Russia they should apply for citizenship elsewhere. If they choose to stay Russian citizens that's on them.

As for nationality vs citizenship. Nationality is too vague of a term because it can mean both citizen of a state and originating from said state. I'm pretty sure in this case the discussion is about people who are Russian citizens, not people who originate from Russia but are no longer associated with them. Using nationality only muddies the discussion.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 minutes ago (1 children)

Congratulation, you are part of the problem!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 minutes ago

So what are we supposed to do?

Not sanction Russia?

Apply sanctions on an individual basis?

[–] [email protected] 185 points 4 hours ago (14 children)

"Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.

It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change anything.

And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US thing.

If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by "news", I don't mean Russian state-sponsored spam.

As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too."

fuck yes. fuck russia. fuck russians.

[–] [email protected] 78 points 3 hours ago

I’m Finnish. Did you think I’d be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it’s not just lack of real news, it’s lack of history knowledge too."

Man, it's like you spend centuries brutalizing all your neighbors, if not outright conquering them and enforcing holocausts, and this is the thanks you get!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (8 children)

So, basically it's enough to say "Fuck Russia, Fuck Russians" here and it gains you massive support.

Seriously?

First, how does this fuck Russia the state?

Second, what everyday Russians have to do with it? What justifies sneaking in hate messages to a diverse ethnic group with no single ideology?

Saying "Fuck Russians" is about the same as "Fuck Jews" because Israel has done bad things. This is not okay.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 32 minutes ago* (last edited 19 minutes ago) (1 children)

Russia has said they are going to do asymetrical warfare with the west. So why should we not prepare for what they claim they will do? Russians arent owed anything by us. Not a seat at the table, not a chance to contribute to open source software, not to be listened to. Not rights beyond their borders. It doesnt matter if they are nice. Its not our job and not realistic to expend time and resources to take each individual russian's personal measure and apply sanctions onesey twosey on the bad ones. If they dont like it they should take it up with their motherland and get it sorted. I think we should immediately shut down all visas of any kind with Russia. The fact that the US is still allowing them to vacation here is absurd.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 12 minutes ago* (last edited 3 minutes ago)

No one's owed anything, but it's in the collective interest to unite - without borders.

Russia is growing reliant on Linux, and it is heavily unlikely they'll poison their own waters. Now Russian state and companies will just fork it for their needs, leaving mainline kernel worse off.

Russians are a diverse set of people, many of whom (especially relatively young IT crowd) are super not cool with what Russia is doing and have 0 intention to do anything murky in its interest.

And I'm growing tired of people imagining Russians can just come out on the street and end this for good, but somehow don't want to or something. Any coordination of people is broken and de facto outlawed. Protesters are jailed within about a minute of protesting. People are scared for their families.

All this also ignores the fact that other world forces can have every intention to backdoor and hurt Linux as well, yet Russia in particular is the scapegoat. Linus just made sure Linux is now part of the proclaimed "West", even though it was never attacked or forced to pick any sides whatsoever, and even Russia the state held absolutely nothing against it.

As per visas - not only would US lose out on a lot of talented folks that could benefit it (and not Russia, mind you!), it's also too big of a political center. There was an occasion when the US didn't want to allow in Russian diplomats that were heading for the United Nations HQ. Is that alright in your eyes?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 32 minutes ago* (last edited 31 minutes ago)

At the very least, a strong majority of russians are supporters of genocidal imperialism, however a solid argument could be made that it's more like an overwhelming majority.

This holds true across all demographic segments; income, education, age, region, rural vs urban. You may have a situation where the support for genocidal imperialism is a mere majority (e.g. younger cohorts), while others approach an almost absolute majority (older cohorts), but the majority always holds no matter how you slice and dice it.

This is backed by almost all quantitative and qualitative research conducted over past ~35 years. I can share a pretty funny anecdote about how an allegedly opposition minded russian (who gets quoted in the NYT) had to twist his own quantitative findings to present a better picture of russian society.

Even recent qualitative research run by opposition minded russian researchers shows a damning picture among of even allegedly moderate russians (in russian, I can share it).

A strong majority of everyday russian support the extermination of Ukrainian culture and sending everyone who disagrees to a torture camp. And this is not limited to Ukraine, they have a similar attitude to all nations that freed themselves from cancer that was the USSR.

Unfortunately many are ignorant of the nature of russian society or prefer to reject difficult information (it's just social media hate).

Torvalds is a Finn and he understand these things and he doesn't have the liberty of shying away from reality.

When compare "Fuck Russians" to "Fuck Jews"; what exactly are you referring to? Russian as in the ethnicity or Russian as in the nationality. This is actually a pretty important point.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 21 minutes ago

With respect to screwing the state, it diminishes the nation's standing in the world. Tech companies under the government are unable to compete with other tech companies when it comes to promises of supporting Linux properly.

By itself it's not much but add the sum total of sanctions and you hopefully inflict an obvious contrast in prosperity available through global trade for a well behaved nation versus losing access to all those markets through misbehavior.

If the world doesn't want to step in with direct force, this is about the only sort of potentially effective measure available. Without force nor economic measures, you are left with shaking your head is disapproval.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 50 minutes ago* (last edited 50 minutes ago)

Well, if your state is breaching international law, deporting children, using artillery to reduce cities to ashes, sending hundreds of thousands of its own citizens to their death and allying itself with fucking north korea to "denazify" a country while swinging its nuclear dick around...

then maybe it's time to leave the country or accept that people with a russian mail address are persona non grata in the rest of the world. It's not their first war of aggression, and enough is enough.

fuck russia. fuck russians.

and fuck hospital- and refugee camp bombing zionists btw. (not all jews are zionists!)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 minutes ago

First, how does this fuck Russia the state?

It makes it more difficult for Russia to put backdoors into western IT infrastructure

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 hour ago

Yes. Fuck Russia and fuck Russians. Slava Ukraini!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

Propaganda goes both ways

[–] babybus -5 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

It's just people can't do anything to stop Russia or at least help Ukraine. Although the latter is possible, but it'd require some effort. Writing and upvoting "fuck Russia" on social media is easy and that makes them feel better.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 14 minutes ago

You feel good typing all that schlock out?

load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 hours ago

I thought it said expulsion of Russian Mountaineers so that was pretty confusing

[–] [email protected] 56 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

To directly quote Linus:

Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about.

It's entirely clear why the change was done, it's not getting reverted, and using multiple random anonymous accounts to try to "grass root" it by Russian troll factories isn't going to change anything.

And FYI for the actual innocent bystanders who aren't troll farm accounts - the "various compliance requirements" are not just a US thing.

If you haven't heard of Russian sanctions yet, you should try to read the news some day. And by "news", I don't mean Russian state-sponsored spam.

As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish. Did you think I'd be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Linus really pouring on that "white death" energy.

[–] [email protected] 89 points 4 hours ago

Absolutely based as fuck as usual.

[–] [email protected] 64 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Good cleanup on the security vulnerabilities!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 hours ago

Honestly, that's the main thing I was thinking.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 hours ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 hour ago
[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

No changes until China decides to invade Taiwan and the sanctions that Russia currently has begin.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 hours ago (6 children)

Yeah, China are being "generic assholes" right now, but not crossing the lines into "serious villain shit" yet, at least for people who aren't in China.

But if they touch Taiwan, oh hell yeah.

load more comments (6 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›