this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2024
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Political Memes

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 month ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 43 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I don't think you need to provide sources or preemptively defend wikipedia.

In my experience the kind of communists who want to shoot all the anarchists have a detailed knowledge of the history of shooting anarchists and talk openly about the fact that they'll shoot all the anarchists.

Also anarchists tend to be pretty aware of what happens when you oppose state power.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 month ago (2 children)

In my experience the kind of communists who want to shoot all the anarchists have a detailed knowledge of the history of shooting anarchists and talk openly about the fact that they’ll shoot all the anarchists.

Wish I had the same experience on Lemmy. Honesty is not in great supply for the tankies here, who prefer to pretend that 'United Front' means something to "AES" states (emphasis on the quotes) other than "Oh boy, I can't wait to backstab everyone to my left"

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

Ah yeah, I don't think anyone is having a serious political discussion on the internet, it's all just dunking and trolling. IRL I've heard many people be completely upfront about it when talking to other leftists.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Your problem is engaging with these people.

I've had a mostly positive experience on here, but I don't try to go hang out in tankieville.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago

I mean, I don't go to hang out in tankieville. I have lemmy.ml domain blocked. I don't go looking for them. I only pick fights with them to emphasize that their fascist shite is unacceptable and blatantly false. It's insane the level of lies they're willing to resort to.

They're a lot more rare in the places I frequent anymore. A year ago they still infested the place - including this very community.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

In my experience the kind of communists who want to shoot all the anarchists have a detailed knowledge of the history of shooting anarchists and talk openly about the fact that they'll shoot all the anarchists.

Yes, and the one time my mom caught me sneaking out at 1am when I was 16 was totally the only time I ever snuck out.

She still believes that one, too.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

o7

( I haven't got the skin yet )

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 month ago (8 children)

This is kind of tangential, but I wish people would make distinction between Marxism and Leninism. Marx didn't say shit about the vanguard party. Imo, we can reject Leninism without having to reject Marxism.

Also don't waste your time arguing with me, because I am woefully uneducated and stupid, but I can only work with what I have, ya know?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 month ago

You're absolutely not wrong. MLs are a... stark departure from Marx.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's the mechanical gaps in Marxist philosophy which arguably led to Leninist revisionism in that first era.

The annoying part is that there is now like 100 year of post-Lenin philosophy which MLs love to ignore because the thing they actually care about is relitigating 100 year old geopolitics.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

TBF even Leninism is a stark departure from what MLs believe.

If you look at the original plans for the Soviet Union, Lenin was basically planning a Syndicalist Representative-Democracy. Problem was that Lenin got too bogged down in crushing any chance that said democracy would vote against itself, and then Stalin just decided to go full corporate town with it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago

I accidentally wandered into a lemmy.ml bit recently and said ML can be rejected just on the basis of consistently devolving into cults. The reply came back of "why do you not like Marxism?" as of that's what I said.

Oh, and they removed that comment and banned me, but that's just as well.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

I don't think many people on lemmy conflate marxism with leninism outside of .ml, and even there folks seems to see leninism as something on top of marxism and not inherently mixed.

And then we also have people who feel stalinist style "communo facism" would work well because everyone you like will be fed and everyone you don't like will be dead. I don't think anyone ever liked those people, including themselves.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

we can reject Leninism without having to reject Marxism.

How about we reject the bad stuff, accept the good stuff, and stop idolizing/demonizing dead white dudes from hundreds of years ago?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

But he did write quite extensively on Lumpenproletariat.

vagabonds, discharged soldiers, discharged convicts, runaway galley slaves, swindlers, charlatans, pickpockets, tricksters, gamblers, procurers, brothel keepers, porters, intellectuals, organ grinders, rag-pickers, knife-grinders, tinkers, beggars; in short, the entirely undefined, disintegrating mass, thrown hither and yon, which the French call la bohème.

That is quite a few groups he considered subhuman, where half the ‘cleansing’ operations under communism have derived their theoretical excuses from.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (14 children)

The point of the Lumpenproletariat isn't that they're subhuman, it's that they lack cohesiveness as a class or revolutionary potential.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 month ago (4 children)

You cannot use a nation state to fix problems with the nation state. Marxism in general has real "the free market will regulate itself" vibes.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago

I'm generally sympathetic to Marxism in general, but that's not the main thrust of the meme so I'll just say "Marxists aren't inherently tankies" and leave it at that.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I suppose the question is how do you go from state to no state in one fell swoop?

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 month ago (1 children)

A functional stateless society would be a generational undertaking not an overnight revolution, anarchists who believe otherwise are in the above picture.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I mean that sounds just like, Marxism-Leninism withering of the state kinda line really so that's what I get confused on unless you're saying that MLs are fundamentally anarchists in that they strive for a stateless society (eventually)

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Typically, the idea of Marxists is to use the state apparatus to dismantle the state apparatus in the end.

Typically, the idea of anarchists is to build parallel structures outside of the state apparatus until the state apparatus is no longer able to resist the alternate power base deciding to dissolve the state.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

That's the first question, the second question is where do you bury all the damn bodies?

The third question is: "Oh shit, did we just kill all the farmers? Anybody know how to grow food?"

This is the point you really hope you're not ukrainian. Or, just, any Asians really.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago

It's just hopelessly modernist and fails in all the same ways every modernist philosophy of that era does. That's why it's annoying why MLs try to lecture you like they know political science - because they clearly have some pretty massive polisci 101 blind spots.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Marxism doesn't call on the state to do that. That's leninism. Marxism is highly unobjectionable. The problem is how we get there. Marx himself spoke of an evolution over a long period of time in Society to arrive there. However humans desire immediate gratification. And thus that was unsatisfactory for most people. Which is where Engles, Lenin and others enter the picture. Who thought they could jump start communism/marxism using the very thing that kept communism/Marxism from being possible. The state.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I dare you to post this in .ml :P

[–] catsarebadpeople 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Zero chance Pig isn't banned from all of .ml

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I don't think I am, actually. Mostly because I haven't posted there. I have no desire to. Let the tankies have their echo chamber, just so long as they stay out of decent communities.

[–] catsarebadpeople 10 points 1 month ago

Dang I figured you'd get an honorary ban haha

[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 month ago

They're not always that patient; sometimes they try to seize power before victory is assured. See: the Spanish Civil War.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Replace tankies with religious fundamentalists (muslims/christian) it would be the same thing

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

It's ideologues. It doesn't really matter if it's "religion" or not.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago

I remember back when Hexbear had "no sectarianism" in their rules, but were actively tearing themselves apart internally over whether or not non-Vegans were "real leftists".

You don't ever have to worry about Tankies actually organizing. People like that don't know how anything works well enough for that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Thats why leftist unity consistently fails, still better then "libertarian" unity

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (10 children)

I was explaining what the Libertarian Party wanted to my daughter and she said she didn't understand why anyone would want a country like that. I told her that virtually no one else does either, which is why Libertarians almost never get elected.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago

Inb4 "wrecker"

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