234
Who would win? (lemmy.world)
submitted 4 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago
[-] [email protected] 21 points 3 days ago

If you lined up and infinite number of Borg cubes in a straight line, how many of them would a single shot of the Death Star destroy before they could adapt? 🤔

[-] [email protected] 41 points 4 days ago

I heard an answer to this on a podcast once,

The deathstar could easily one shot a cube, but they would never be able to do it again, because the borg adapt

[-] [email protected] 33 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

If the cube is wiped in a single shot, there might not be enough borg left with enough data to adapt. They aren't adapting magically, they are able to analyze the shot and adjust their shields to block shots.

Ill bet, if they could sneak up on some cubes they could pop a few before the Borg really got wise.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 4 days ago

I imagine the first cube would get some drones on the Death Star before being destroyed. It would take some time to assimilate the whole thing, so the Death Star might be able to take a few more cubes before being too far gone, but my guess is the first (or maybe second if the Death Star was lucky) cube would be the end of it.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 4 days ago

Fair point, either way the borg always win in the end

[-] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

Assuming the death star started firing as soon as they encountered each other it still takes about 14 seconds to fire. You can get a lot of data in that time.

You could also beam over a lot ( though you really only need one) of Borg in that time.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

It also depends on the parameters of the shot. DS2 was shooting at partial charge to take out ships so there's less recharge time between shots. If the DS commander did the same to the Borg, they might blow a hole in the Cube without destroying it, and the Borg don't give a fuck.

They beam in some drones and it's over.

[-] [email protected] 15 points 3 days ago

This came up a few months ago, and I wasted most of a day figuring it out. Here's a compilation of what I said at the time:

The Borg's main advantage is its ability to counter energy weapons. They do this with the Adaptive Shield Matrix:

All phasers are generated on a particular subspace phase compression pulse frequency, whilst torpedo warheads all possess their own shielding which also possesses its own subspace phase compression pulse frequency. Adaptive Shielding works by remodulating the shields to the identical subspace compression pulse frequency of torpedos and phasers...

So, it seems like the Borg's sheilds adapt to the subspace pulse frequencies of phasers and torpedos. Phasers are a type particle weapon that Gene Roddenberry made up when he realized lasers didn't work the way he thought they did, and they don't really have much basis in the real world like lasers or plasma weapons do. The problem is that 99% of the weapons in Star Wars are plasma weapons, except for the Death Star cannon, which is a laser.

Since the Adaptive Shield Matrix specifically works by adapting to subspace frequencies, there's really no reason to think that their shields would have a distinct advantage over lasers or plasma bolts the way they do phasers. Star Fleet seems to agree, as they theorized plasma phasers would be effective weapons against the Borg in Best of Both Worlds. Picard was also able to easily kill several Borg with hard-light bullets in First Contact, further demonstrating their inability to counter non-phaser weapons.

It also doesn't seem like the Borg have an innate ability to adapt to enemy weapons. Aside from only countering phaser weapons, the rotating-frequency strategy was pretty effective throughout TNG and First Contact. It seems more like that Adaptive Shield Matrix was just a piece of technology they assimilated rather than an intrinsic ability to counter attacks.

So, if the Borg shields don't nullify the Death Star's weapons like they do Star Trek weapons, and they don't have a special ability to counter enemy attacks, this just comes down firepower. The superlaser should be able to destroy any Borg cube multiple times, and even without the superlaser, they're massively outgunned. This is 3000 meter ship against a 75 mile wide battle station. Even if the 10,000 turbolaser, 2,500 laser cannons, 2,500 ion cannons can't overpower them (and by the way, it sounds like those, "lasers," are actually plasma weapons according to wookiepedia, because of course Star Wars can't be consistent), and the 768 tractor beam projectors can't immobilize the cube, the 7,000 individual tie fighters would probably overwhelm the it. Hell, if the Death Star is faster, they could probably just smash into them and still survive the damage.

I think the Death Star has this by a mile. I hate to admit it, but I don't see a win condition for the Borg here.

[-] [email protected] 9 points 3 days ago

The Borg would want that technology so after that first cube is destroyed they'd be back with enough firepower to overwhelm the shields and get drones on board. Even if they lost a couple of hundred cubes it would likely be worthwhile.

The Borg have several trillions of drones many thousands to millions of vessels. They can go full Russia tactics with capturing the death star if needed.


If this is the first death star though, they'd just beam some drones aboard while it was busy destroying them.

There were small gaps in the shields of the first Death Star; the Empire believed that this was harmless since only small ships could wiggle through the gaps.

If a small ship can get through then a transporter beam is definitely getting through.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Yeah, the Borg hordes would overwhelm the Death Star. The last time this was posed was as a single Borg Cube vs. the Death Star, so I'm assuming that's what OP was asking.

I don't really see how a boarding party is going to help them much, though. Stormtroopers aren't the most competent soldiers, but Borg aren't going to be better protected from the plasma in their Blasters than the Cube is from the Death Star's plasma and laser weapons. It's possible they could assimilate someone with strategic knowledge of the station or find something useful in their computers, but they're going to get wrecked before they can pull that off. The cube is also too big to get through the Death Star shields, so they can't use the exhaust port trick to blow it up.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

I don't see how plasma weapons would do anything. The Borg are probably already adapted to be honest. The Romulans were rocking plasma torpedoes in the 23rd century, and there's no idea of just sending a bunch of TOS era warbirds against the Borg. The only reason the primary weapon would work is the raw power it has being able to simply overload anything in front of it.

If the Borg personal shields aren't already adapted to storm troopers weapons they'll just blast through a few Borg, then they adapt their personal shields to compensate for the stormtrooper weapons.

After that it's open season on turning the whole crew into drones and subverting the computer systems.

The only thing that might be able to stop them if there was a force wielder on the death star, and they realised what was going on before even they'd be overwhelmed by the sheer number of assimilated crew.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Well, again, their sheild adapting technology very specifically works on phaser and torpedo warheads, but haven't shown any adaptability to other weapons, and the entry on Memory Alpha entry seems to make this explicit. That doesn't mean that they don't stop other weapons, just that they only work like normal shields against other weapons. So, 23rd century warbirds probably wouldn't be very effective against the Borg, since they're old, outdated, and probably underpowered tech, but a Galaxy Class Starship with plasma weapons as powerful as normal phasers would probably do well.

So, if the sheilds don't nullify the Death Star's weapons, this match up would basically be the same as any large Star Trek ship vs. the Death Star. And since the Death Star is so massive, pretty much any ship is gonna get wrecked. I'm sure the Borg would do fine against a Star Wars ship of roughly comparable size, but the Death Star is almost 100 times larger.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago

Not sure where you got in memory alpha that they can only adapt to phasers, this is what memory alpha has to say.

The Borg were usually exceedingly quick to adapt; their shields would often nullify nearly any energy weapon, and their weapons could usually penetrate nearly any shield or defense, within minutes

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

I mean, after being shot through by the death stars laser weapon, the borg would launch their time travel device so as to go back and include some ridiculous vulnerability in the death stars plans that they could then take advantage of. Say, like a single vent shaft that ran from the outside of the fort all the way to it's power source 🤣 I also imagine they would be able to get drones aboard. however, I could also see the hivemind being vulnerable to force manipulation tactics. A larger consciousness might be harder to sway, but the power of Darth Vader can't be summarily dismissed in this capacity. I think Darth would attempt to control them.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 3 days ago

Yeah, I suppose time travel could win them the day, but that feels like cheating. I'm not sure boarding party would do much better. Those personal shields the Borg have are...weird. They stop phaser fire like a ships shields, but they don't stop physical objects (for example, Mr. Worf's fists) like a regular shield. But there's no reason to believe that they would stop plasma bolts from a Blaster, so there's no reason to think a Borg boarding party would get wrecked by a barrage of (admittedly inaccurate) Stormtrooper fire before they could do much damage. Plus the Cube would probably get destroyed before they could send more than one or two waves of drones over.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

The Culture.

[-] smuuthbrane 22 points 4 days ago

WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL UNIQUENESS TO OUR… WAIT, YOU'RE ALL IDENTICAL? WTAF??

[-] [email protected] 23 points 4 days ago

Sigh — please kill me…

Actually, at that point in the empire, 0BBY stormtroopers were no longer clones

[-] [email protected] 6 points 4 days ago

clones were outlawed and the Kamino cloning facilities were destroyed in the Kamino uprising. But, that didn't stop one certain individual having his own dozens or so clones (based on EU content, not Disney Sequels)

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] [email protected] 21 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Are we just not going to talk about the fact that the cube is made of Legos?

[-] [email protected] 2 points 2 days ago

Well the borg know some of the most deadly items in existence are legos so obviously they’ll add that weapon to their arsenal.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago

Lego bricks! It's Lego bricks, you scuff looking nerf herder!

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

WE NEVER TALK ABOUT THAT. 😣

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] [email protected] 16 points 4 days ago

Death Star might win the battle, but the Borg win the war

[-] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago

Deathstar takes first blood very easily, but that would never work twice.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

This! Yea the death star could annihilate a cube, but there's only 1 death star, vs. 20,000 cubes

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] [email protected] 12 points 4 days ago

The first cube is obviously dead. But the Borg will send a decent amount of cubes next time, and even if the shields on the death star can block beaming will have them down and drones on board before every cube is gone.

After that the Borg have a super sphere.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

I don’t think even Borg shields can adapt to the main weapon on the Death Star. But as you said, they don’t really need to. Send multiple cubes. They don’t even need to beam over. Borg do fine in vacuum, just throw a bunch of drones at the Death Star, they’ll eventually find their way inside.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

Yep, the raw power of the death star overcomes shields. But the Borg don't care about loosing multiple ships if the prize is worthwhile.

Thinking about it how quickly can the death star even recharge and fire again after the first shot? If it's not quick then the Borg might only need to sacrifice one cube and a few thousand drones.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago

They are in space and the cube can approach from the opposite side of the main weapon. The death star would take a long time to rotate the main weapon at the cube and it can keep moving out of the way.

Cube wins.

[-] [email protected] 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Simple. The cube gets one shotted. The Borg Collective, which is linked across subspace, will notice a Cube suddenly going dark. They will send two spheres. The first gets one shotted, as the Death Star is simply too powerful to block its main weapon with adaptium shields. The second sphere beams over drones. The Death Star is assimilated. Resistance is futile. The Borg now have assimilated the technology of a planet killer weapon. Not that it matters. The Borg have the technology to wipe out entire star systems in one go. They choose not to, as that would go against the Identify, Adapt, Assimilate mindset. You can't ascend other species into the Collective if you vaporise them all.

[-] [email protected] 13 points 4 days ago

The Borg cube would find the inherent flaw in the Death Star and exploit it. Borg cubes can't be destroyed easily just through weapons fire because they're self-repairing and have adaptive shielding.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 4 days ago

I guess even if the Death Star were able to destroy a single Borg Cube, that would be it at most.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 4 days ago

I would say so. Also, Borg Cubes are decentralized, which makes them harder to cripple, let alone destroy.

[-] [email protected] 14 points 4 days ago

Well, the Death Star can destroy a planet, so I'm thinking they could take out a single cube.

Imagine the energy required to destroy a planet...

But if there's more than one cube, I'm guessing they're fucked.

But what happens if Vader were assimilated?

[-] [email protected] 8 points 4 days ago

I guess that depends on whether or not force powers work a long time from now in a galaxy right, right here.

load more comments (5 replies)
load more comments (10 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[-] [email protected] 5 points 3 days ago

Well the Empire lacks any OSHA standards so they’d totally miss the change in environmental conditions as the Borg slowly assimilates the station…

[-] [email protected] 10 points 4 days ago

Just like first contact. The cube gets one shot, but it only takes one Borg landing on the death star for the station to slowly fall.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

Depends on who won the initiative roll.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Who ever lands the first shot. I never believed that adaptable Borg shields couldn't be overwhelmed with enough energy. They just need a big enough wack every time. Eventually, the Borg ship's energy will be depleted.

The Death Star has enough energy to vaporize an entire planet. The only action the Borg has would be to overwhelm the firing rate and land drones to take it over.

Considering since Rouge One, we know the Death Star can fire lower energy blasts, presumably at a higher rate, who knows what rate the DS can take out Borg ships.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

Given that Storm Trooper rifles are the most basic-ass laser weapons imaginable and don't even consistently kill a person wearing physical armour, let alone a shield, this battle is over basically the minute the Borg beam over to the Death Star. The cube will be destroyed by the main D.S. gun, but it takes so long to aim and charge that half the station would already be assimilated - or at very least full of laser-immune Borg.

Additional thought: 70%-ish of a Borg cube needs to be destroyed before its distributed system collapses. If the D.S. main gun is too powerful it may just shoot straight through and leave the Cube with enough intact to keep going at least one more shot.

[-] TheLorax 5 points 3 days ago

The 2nd death star shoots a cruiser out of the sky in ROTJ so they get at least 1 of the 20,000 borg cubes

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] [email protected] 4 points 3 days ago

Depends how fast the Death Star can traverse. It's built for attacking stationary targets.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
234 points (98.0% liked)

TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

3177 readers
713 users here now

/c/TenFoward: Your home-away-from-home for all things Star Trek!

Re-route power to the shields, emit a tachyon pulse through the deflector, and post all the nonsense you want. Within reason of course.

~ 1. No bigotry. This is a Star Trek community. Hating someone off of their race, culture, creed, sexuality, or identity is not remotely acceptable. Mistakes can happen but do your best to respect others.

~ 2. Keep it civil. Disagreements will happen both on lore and preferences. That's okay! Just don't let it make you forget that the person you are talking to is also a person.

~ 3. Use spoiler tags. This applies to any episodes that have dropped within 3 months prior of your posting. After that it's free game.

~ 4. Keep it Trek related. This one is kind of a gimme but keep as on topic as possible.

~ 5. Keep posts to a limit. We all love Star Trek stuff but 3-4 posts in an hour is plenty enough.

~ 6. Try to not repost. Mistakes happen, we get it! But try to not repost anything from within the past 1-2 months.

~ 7. No General AI Art. Posts of simple AI art do not 'inspire jamaharon' and fuck over our artist friends.

Fun will now commence.


Sister Communities:

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]

Want your community to be added to the sidebar? Just ask one of our mods!


Honorary Badbitch:

@[email protected] for realizing that the line used to be "want to be added to the sidebar?" and capitalized on it. Congratulations and welcome to the sidebar. Stamets is both ashamed and proud.


Creator Resources:

Looking for a Star Trek screencap? (TrekCore)

Looking for the right Star Trek typeface/font for your meme? (Thank you @kellyaster for putting this together!)


founded 6 months ago
MODERATORS