“I didn’t see it therefore it never existed” is the most insane fucking logic to me
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Agreed, yet it's one of the most common logical fallacies.
And stupid when obviously the only question one would need to ask in this context is "are there trans people over 30?" And the answer is "absolutely fucking yes"
So Heather thinks that no one talked about it because it simply hadn't occurred to anyone rather than being afraid?
Or is Heather saying she preferred it when they suffered in silence?
I think Heather is saying that it's either a fad, or a deliberate corruption spread by Those People. Either way, it's not real and trans people are either evil or stupid, and Life Was Better before we had this evil and/or stupidity in it.
Heather is stupid.
My dad's best friend from high school transitioned...I can't remember when I first met him (used to be "her"), but it had to be sometime in the late 90s/early 2000s, and I was just a teenager. He had fully transitioned by that point. I remember thinking that made sense. It was before the culture war types discovered trans people and decided they were the literal devils. To me it sounded simple--as a kid Tracy always felt like she was a boy. So when she could afford it, she got surgery to fix her body to match what her brain was, since that's easier and less risky than changing your brain to match your body. It sounded to me like getting a prosthetic if you're born without a limb or something. Or getting an amputation if you're born with an extra limb. Like, you were born with something wrong with your body and you fixed it, not a big deal.
It wasn't until much much later that I realized how rare Tracy was for that time period...not just because the kind of biological mistake he fixed is statistically rare (which I understood as a kid), but because the vast, vast majority of people born that way hide it (which I did not understand). I also didn't really have a concept of "gender" as a different thing than "sex" at that point...I don't think the vocabulary for that really existed except maybe in a few academic circles. So to me, she was a she until she transitioned, then she became he. She had a problem, now he doesn't.
It also confused the fuck out of me when people started saying hateful shit about trans people. Like, no, I know a trans person, he's cool as hell, we went kayaking together.
So when she could afford it, she got surgery to fix her body to match what her brain was, since that’s easier and less risky than changing your brain to match your body.
Just a small point. If we had any medical/scientifically validated method to "change her brain to match her body", Conservatives would be railing non-stop to only allow that instead of allowing/promoting what we currently know as gender transition. It would still be wrong because it would literally be brainwashing.
I was born in the early 90s and there was an AFAB person who very early on insisted they were actually a boy. I do remember thinking it was weird when I was a kid but the more they presented masculine the more it became "That's just the way they are" and I accepted it.
They were masculine presenting as early as 4th grade if I remember correctly. They were a beacon of light in high school for other queer people who hadn't figured themselves out yet. And they were super nice and friendly so everyone liked them.
They waited until our first year of college before asking us to refer them with he/him pronouns. It just made sense. I had a better understanding of gender and its spectrum by this point so it I remember thinking "finally."
Unfortunately he was in a car accident not too long after, and passed away. The world is sincerely lesser from his passing.
My daughter goes to school with a transboy. I suspected he was trans from his behavior, haircut, etc. the first time when he and my daughter were at a pool party together when they were 9 years old. I'm so glad we live in an era where it's more comfortable (although there's still a long way to go) for someone like him to be who they really are.
Schools always did this.
Never expelling the bullies, always expelling the kid that was bullied to their breaking point when they retaliated.
I am convinced that the people who choose to be teachers (and especially principals) also tend to be the kind of people who like and relate to bullies.
In general a lot of them seen to enjoy bullying as a method of "correcting" other people to align with your will. A method some of them seem to feel they are unjustly restrained from utilizing fully.
Not being aware of something existing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You are not the center of the world. Jesus christ.
I graduated in '89. Queer as a $3 bill always was, but you didn't say that shit in high school back then. Just being gay was dangerous enough, can't imagine how being trans would have gone over.
If you did try to be who you were, you ended up ostracized at best, dead in a ditch at worst. I chose the lunch tray route, but outside of school...
'89 here as well. If people think gay folk have it bad now, friends and neighbors, I can tell stories.
Gay rights jumped 900% in relatively few years. It's why the conservatives are shitting themselves. Now they're told they have to, at least, tolerate the people they used to hate. Can't stomach it.
In 1999 my boyfriend wouldn't hold my hand or show any affection outside the house for fear. Gays now don't even know what the pride rallies are for
Graduated 03... Didn't know trans was a thing. Nobody spoke about it. The concept of "transsexuals" was limited to trans women and them basically only in the concept of riddicule so had no idea trans men could exist...
I had no words for what I was. No community. Just a sense of being isolated from every other person with thoughts that made me sound crazy even to myself. I hosted a bunch of desires I knew would make me end up more alienated and alone than I already was if I even tried to voice them.
Funnily enough I also snapped and tried to beat a bully with a hockeystick. I was a gentle kid who wanted to hurt no one and because I was locked inside myself everybody took a turn treating me like shit because I was quiet. Thankfully my teachers got it. My parents were not even phoned, the teachers just acted like it was any other day of the week. I owe those folks a lot.
There was a trans girl in my high school in the 90s. She was lucky in a way because she was also drop-dead gorgeous, so even a lot of the asshole bigot kids who knew she was trans didn't say anything in case other kids would make fun of them for having a crush on her.
There was a trans girl in my school in the late 90s and she was a total scheming bitch who tried to get my girlfriend to dump me.
I have very vivid memories of the one out trans person I knew back then lol
Heather is, unfortunately, very typical. It didn't happen in her world so therefore it wasn't really a "thing"
I'm always surprised at how people can't seem to imagine a world that isn't a mirror image of their reality.
To everyone who went to school before the heliocentric model was introduced, do you remember anyone talking about how they thought the Earth may not be the center of the galaxy? No.. Me neither.
If all someone knew were vortices and the ethereal plane, it would take quite a while to explain Newton's new take through Calculus. Have you seen the thickness of his publications? Also, they're in Latin so the insider language factor is quite challenging.
I used to have a group of kids follow me home throwing rocks at me every day for like a week. No adult did anything about it. So eventually, I picked up a rock and threw it back and hitting one of them in the face.
I was punished by the school, even though this didn't even happen at school. I was punished by my parents. The bullies were not punished ever, and they never stopped.
Absolutely true. No one (well, very few, even the obvious ones) was even openly gay before the 2000s
People who weren't around as at least a teen before 2000s have no clue how silent anyone was on being gay. It just about never was discussed
It was not a safe thing to admit. Being trans would be significantly worse for them I'm sure
The original question is just groomer-accusing trash, probably by someone who indoctrinates children religiously and are scared another group "with an agenda" might get to them first
Yep. Nobody was out in the 90s. None. The one goth kid that wore a tiny bit of eyeliner was a big fucking deal and he was straight (had a big tiddy goth gf).
You're going too far. There were definitely plenty of kids out in the 90s. Not as many as today, but maybe one or two per school, depending on the school.
Graduated near 2000 and yes I remember several and several more who waited until after they graduated to come out about it.
I think most people who "dont remember" are people from groups that it wouldn't be kosher to come out around. I also image racist people didn't have a lot of nonwhite friend's go figure.
I finished school in the 90s. We had a guy in our class who was very not straight. Although we were sometimes nice to him we also bullied him and I still feel guilty about it to this day. Last I heard he identified as a female but that was second hand info 15 years ago. I have no idea what happened to him/her. I wish I could apologise but have no way to even contact them or know where to start.
I've always wanted to tell this kind of story in fiction:
Someone goes 90% of the path down a 'Joker' story - they're mistreated and abandoned by society, unable to live, much less achieve their dreams, basically because of their lot in life. They've caused extreme, grievous harm that could genuinely be categorized as self-defense. Then, just as they're planning some final, very climactic action with some strong weaponry to remove someone that makes them feel unsafe, someone DOES hear them out - and saves them from the path of becoming a full anti-hero, establishing in a large venue of society that every "heinous" action of his was a necessary act for human sanity, and could have been avoided by countless people in their path. Those who wronged him receive due punishment, and the cruelty he's been exposed to is revealed to society at large.
Granted, that kind of thing does sound like a hero power fantasy; but when 90% of the anime I see these days is trash isekai "I'm overpowered in this alternate world" type of stuff, it feels like a fantasy we want to have these days.
A story where the protagonist is swayed from violence to gain revenge is desperately needed
Media really promotes violence and revenge as proper things to do
I cleared year 12 in 1995 and I could have called myself trans, except there was no such word. I was just a boy who wanted long hair and girls clothes and toys. One of my happiest early memories was when the guy at the holiday spot lolly kiosk addressed me and my sister as girls
If the word existed, I wouldn't have used it since I was bullied for my accent, my height, my name. I knew from an early age that you couldn't be different
I wasn't expelled when I punched a bully in the mouth in 3rd grade primary school. I was told it was wrong, but it worked, I wasn't bullied any more in the last 3 years at that school
I wasn't expelled (or punished at all) from high school when I threw the desk at a bully in year 10, and that also stopped the bullying for the two remaining years there
By the time I heard the word trans I was very much shaped and socialised to my assigned gender.
Yes actually. Knew a guy that talked about it to close friends a lot in the late 90s. He's (she's) openly trans now.
If you don't know what to use you're in luck, english has "they" that's neutral, no need to invent a new pronoun (like in french) or to find roundabout ways to not use a specific gender in your phrase.
Hmm... what year did the song Lola come out?
Yeah, but you see, that wasn't in school, so it doesn't count. And don't you dare Google "Institut für Sexualwissenschaft."
Yeah, this is pretty much it. Survival strategies for most schools are to lay low, don't draw attention to yourself, and definitely don't give the bullies easy ammunition.
In my small town, a three-letter f word slur was employed regularly by pre-teens who had no understanding of what that word meant. You knew they learned it from their parents, because what fucking kid learns that kind of language in the 80s and 90s without the internet?
Of course people didn't hear about trans kids. Because if you did, they would have been bullied so much that they'd either leave, or just be a legendary target forever.
I swear, people forget what it's like to be in school with aloof administrative staff and shitty peers.
Anecdotally, yea. Army kid life so I didnt meet her until high school of 2007-8. I was friends with a girl who sort of did become trans later. In high school we were friends and went on like 1 or 2 dates, but it didn't really work. Left high school and years of emailing later she came out as not caring what pronouns and dressing androgynous. I don't talk to her any more just due to time passing and living 500 miles different. Loosely fits this bill because we would have started school right before the turn of the M.