this post was submitted on 21 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 130 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (19 children)

FUUUUCK YEAH, long overdue.

  1. Force them to allow users to use different chat apps with SMS.
  2. Force them to allow "side-loading" 3rd party apps and stores (exactly like you can already do on MacOS).
  3. Require unlockable bootloaders and/or 3rd party OS with reasonable security protections.
  4. Ban "parts pairing" and require Apple to make OEM components available for purchase from 3rd parties, on all devices.
  5. Force them to allow the use of hardware without an account.

That will be a good start. Hell I might even buy an Apple device if they were able to get all of that.

And to be clear, all of this should apply to all other companies but Apple are the most egregious violators.

[–] restingboredface 77 points 5 months ago (3 children)
  1. Force them to allow the use of hardware without an account.

This should be a rule for all products.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 5 months ago

all of this should apply to all other companies

[–] [email protected] 12 points 5 months ago

cough Windows cough

… and make it easy to find

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (1 children)

problem is that they are ready to do anything to keep their locked ecosystem (see how they sabotaging alt stores in EU)

you have to stomp apples anticompetive strategies HARD

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Yeah and then keep stomping.

I’m loving how governments are finally starting to stomp on corporations. I only wish they’d stomp *harder. *

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Can’t you already do #5?

I have Macs and iOS devices that aren’t logged into an iCloud account.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I dunno. I used one for 5 minutes last week and I wasn't able to update the operating system or install any apps without logging in with Apple id

I was trying to upgrade a family member's SSD and it was an absolute nightmare but I got it done eventually.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (5 children)

Installing apps on iOS is good point. You need an account. MacOS doesn’t have that constraint.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

Was thinking that too, although there are some caveats, you need to at least log into the store to download apps as it stands right now. I think you can log out after installing them, but still. Also using FaceTime or iMessage require accounts, when Apple otherwise could have it set up to just register with the phone number only, have no account, and just be ephemeral to that specific device. (But then at that point, they might as well just follow the IMS video call standard that is cross-platform and do away with FaceTime altogether, and the mobile industry should figure out the SMS replacement to then eliminate iMessage.)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Can I use a web browser not based on Safari finally?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago (3 children)

dewebkiting browsers hasnt happened yet, but in EU, they arely have the select a browser on launch instead of installing safari by default iirc

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Forced bundling of their preferred apps like a browser was what triggered the Microsoft anti trust, this is well overdue and Apple should have known it was coming

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I mean MS has gotten away with exactly that, and so much more since then. The modern government hardly ever gives a shit anymore. So I wouldn't be surprised if Apple totally expected to get away with it in perpetuity, and I won't be surprised if they walk away from this unscathed because they filled the right pockets.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 5 months ago (1 children)

About damn time. They should have never been allowed to grow so big in so many markets to become the only player. They're literally mentally crippling a generation of youngs that now don't know how technology works. I remember a young coworker at a technology company a while back remarking, upon finding another coworker's Android phone, "Oh wait, this is Android? Well, we're going to need a hacker to figure out how to use that thing," and he sat it back down, defeated. Wat.

https://www.theverge.com/22684730/students-file-folder-directory-structure-education-gen-z

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

My boss was kinda giving me and another guy some shit for having Android phones (he has an iPhone). Not in a mean way, just kind of razzing us about it.

Other dude looked at him and goes, "Sorry for being poor, I guess," and then started laughing, haha. But yeah, I've had several people over the years be perplexed by anything that wasn't an iPhone.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 5 months ago

Europe doesn't surprise me but I am actually surprised to see this happen in the US.

[–] nkat2112 19 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I wonder what took so long, but anyway. I'm glad they're working on it now.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

My guess is that it took a while because they’ve been able to argue that they’re not a monopoly in the market. It’s a duopoly in the US because Android controls 40% of the market and Apple has 60%.

It’s a stupid argument and it’s still anticompetitive. That said, the last time the US government cracked down on an operating system manufacturer like this, it was Microsoft, and they had over 90% of the market.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 5 months ago (3 children)

So the stupidest thing happened with my iPhone. My mom and I are going on an 8-hour drive and I loaded a bunch of radio dramas on my phone and wanted to print out the track listing for her to choose from what to listen to on the drive. We have multiple machines with multiple OSes, but my desktop was a Mac, so I plugged the phone in and started the Music app... and there was no way to do it. No way at all. I did some searching and that's just not something that is on the Music app. And there are no other Mac options either.

But... Windows doesn't run Music. It runs iTunes. And the way to do it is to print it from iTunes as a PDF. Something that is not an option on a Mac.

They removed a feature for their phone from their own OS.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

Highlight the tracks, command+c, paste into numbers, and then print it.

Was my first idea and it works, took about 5 seconds.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Apple Music on MacOS has this. Create a playlist with the tracks. File -> Print

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Music finally replaced iTunes a few weeks ago on Windows.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I read the whole article and it didn't fucking mention the specifics of the case at all. Which part are they suing over specifically?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

At least one thing is supposedly rejecting payments apps and things that competed with built-in Apple apps and services.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

This means that the reporters haven't read through all the hundreds of pages yet.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago (2 children)

Don't think that's going to go far:

https://backlinko.com/iphone-vs-android-statistics

As of early 2024, Android has a 70.69% market share worldwide.

In the US, iPhones hold a market share of 60.77%.

More than 1 billion iPhones and over 3 billion Android devices are currently active.

Android smartphones accounted for 56% of all smartphone sales worldwide in Q4 2023.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 5 months ago (4 children)

It's 100% not about how much market share they have, it's about the restrictions on hardware and software:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/business/live-news/doj-apple-antitrust-lawsuit-03-21-24/index.html

The DOJ claims Apple has used anticompetitive tactics, such as blocking innovative new apps and degrading how Android messages appear on iPhones, to maintain a monopoly on the smartphone market.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

I don't know what the criteria the FTC uses is, or what exactly Apple is accused of, but economically, I'd say that Apple and Google largely have different markets. There are Android users and iOS users. Because apps are not portable across these, a user's software library largely locks them into and constrains them to use the same platform, as shifting away from the platform would require throwing out their software library.

So if you're an iOS user, for example, there's really one app store out there that you can use. Android isn't really an option.

And I'd say that there's probably fertile ground for a company to have a monopoly position there.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Bullshit. The App Store is anti-competitive. The hardware is not. Wrong thing to attack. It will likely fail as a result.

I'm beginning to agree with a take I saw online. Someone said Lina Khan's tenure has been a failure because despite gesturing at all the right players, her FTC has failed to make progress because they're calling the wrong plays.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 5 months ago

You'd be right, if the hardware AND software weren't made by the same company and locked to each other and that same company didn't simultaneously have a massive market share

[–] [email protected] 13 points 5 months ago

The App Store is anti-competitive. The hardware is not.

Not sure what that means, exactly. The hardware is not competitive because it is locked to a proprietary OS created by the hardware manufacturer. This is an arbitrary limitation that benefits no one but Apple, and stifles competition with other OS's.

That's without even mentioning the limitations on repairs that contribute to e-waste and costs consumers money unnecessarily.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 5 months ago

It seems that the App Store and other walled garden restrictions are what the suit is about. The posted article is vague and confusing: first talking about an “illegal monopoly in smartphones” but then referring to the “walled garden”, etc.

This article notes that

The heart of the lawsuit centers around claims that Apple stopped smaller companies from accessing the hardware and software in its iPhones, which led to fewer options for customers.

referring to hardware monopoly power may be some legalese needed to meet the requirements to file an antitrust suit, or to head off defense arguments by making a distinction between Apple and other instances of walled gardens, like game consoles.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Someone said Lina Khan's tenure has been a failure because despite gesturing at all the right players, her FTC has failed to make progress because they're calling the wrong plays

All by design, it's only a failure to us stupid prolies. They're intentionally giving their corporate donors softballs that they know will never hurt their bottom line so that they can turn around come election season and say "Well, at least we tried!" and hope we don't look any further.

FWIW, I don't think this is failure is Khan's fault. She seems to have spent her professional career developing anti-trust philosophy. The only issue is that the FTC is the state mechanism to protect the wealth funnel and there's very little a individual can do within the Commission to protect consumers.

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