this post was submitted on 23 Jan 2024
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Most Canadians who plan on voting for the Liberal party are more motivated to stop the Conservatives from winning the election rather than endorsing the party's vision and leader, according to a new poll released on Monday.

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[–] [email protected] 47 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And this is why the LPC will never pass electoral reform (except for ranked ballot, because they're more likely to be everyone's second choice) because under full PR they'd never, ever, get another majority government despite having tepid support among the voting population. For the record, the CPC wouldn't even support ranked ballots as they're almost never the second choice of anyone (because their policies--when they can be bothered to articulate them--are unpopular, believe it or not)

For the record, no Canadian political party has had >50% of the popular vote in half a century, and even before then it was exceedingly rare. FPtP allows the LPC or CPC to sneak a majority in, anyways.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 7 months ago (2 children)

This is also why the one thing Trudeau could do to make me respect him would be say, "I'm stepping down as leader. My last act as PM is to roll out legitimate proportional representation."

The Liberals are probably not going to win the next election no matter what; but legitimate reform would mean an end to autocratic majorities.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 7 months ago

He'd face a full caucus revolt if he tried. I'd expect the Liberals would prefer to lose a vote of confidence than implement PR.

Honestly, I think they'd also rather lose than implement anything remotely economically progressive.

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[–] [email protected] 42 points 7 months ago (7 children)

Instead they should vote for the NDP. The only party that truly cares about the biddle class.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 7 months ago (4 children)

ABC. Anything but conservative. FPTP is winner takes all, so vote for Liberal or NDP depending on who's more likely to get in in your area. And pray to whatever force may be that someone puts in a sensible voting system at some point.

[–] [email protected] 58 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Remember when Trudeau promised election reform when he was elected the first time?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[–] can 31 points 7 months ago

I remember every election when I vote NDP.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago (1 children)

We got dental and in theory pharma with this minority government. Maybe the NDP can twist their arm into voting reforms next time if we get another?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I remember seeing an analysis of FPTP and in about 70% of the elections since the 60s it favoured the Liberals against NDP and PC on a riding by riding and general election basis. It'll be a cold day in hell before they change anything.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Or just vote NDP regardless so that we can stop praying.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If voting NDP had any more effect than pissing in the wind in my area I would. Unfortunately, they rarely get a significant percentage of the vote and when they do we go conservative. So it's either hold my nose and vote lib or help a conservative who doesn't even live in the city get in.

If polling changes to show the NDP beating the libs here I'm 100% changing my vote. Until then, the system sucks so sometimes voting sucks.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Well, because the liberals didn't reform elections as they promised, we can't do that.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 7 months ago

You can, in fact, vote for NDP.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago

Yeah… how convenient.

sigh…

[–] xmunk 15 points 7 months ago

I really feel privileged to live in an area that's NDP vs LPC where I can merrily vote against the Liberals.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Local riding πŸ”€ it is. πŸ‘

In any case it's the local riding election that matters. Some folks vote as if our system is proportional with completely counterproductive results.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

God it must be so nice not having a two-party system.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Except it pretty much is a two party system with extra steps.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (5 children)

You mean with minority governments.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Minority governments have enacted everything that makes Canada good.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

This could just be a feature of getting good things when we give the NDP a larger share of power than usual, though. The Liberals didn't want universal healthcare, it was a concession given to the NDP because they had to. But it's not like a majority NDP situation at the time wouldn't have passed it.

Much the same as dental care today. What exactly are the Liberals bringing to the table other than acting as gatekeepers making sure the system isn't as expansive as it could be?

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago

Well, just know that as bad as it is, you can always look south for a worse solution.

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[–] [email protected] 24 points 7 months ago (2 children)

The Liberals and Conservatives love that people believe this country can't survive another election cycle of the other.

We'll survive another 4 years of the Liberals or Conservatives. What this country can't survive is alternating between two bad parties for another few decades.

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Vote NDP if you don’t want Cons to win, if voting Libs worked then this β€œthreat” wouldn’t exist

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (2 children)

As much as I hate to admit it, voting for anything other than the liberals right now will be a win for the cons. Popular support for the NDP hasn't shifted from 20% support since 2021, meanwhile the cons are up to ~41% and the libs are down to ~27%.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Not true! Trudeau got rid of the first past the post syst.... oh wait.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (2 children)

If I vote Liberal I'd guarantee a conservative win in my riding...

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago

Ugh this is what my wife told me she was planning yesterday.

Pollievre is so fucking nutty were both worried about the country of he wins.

I cannot stress enough how fucking stupid this guy is, hell take any idea that's popular at the time and run with it, like how he wanted to make Canada the crypto capital and neuter our central bank.

It's pretty fucking clear if we'd done that in 2021 we'd be fucked today. He's still peddling Bank of Canada and World Economic Forum conspiracy shit too. Yet the "fiscal" conservatives are fine with this?

So we've got the status PM quo that's overstayed his welcome by a full election cycle vs 4chan Millhouse. Great. (Oh, sorry, he took off his glasses now, is he still Millhouse?)

And the NDP are also responsible because they're sticking with Singh despite him being as uninspiring as Trudeau. They've only lost seats since picking him, but hey, why not stay the course... It's great the NDP got pharmacare rolling but the implementation is asinine.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 7 months ago

"This means just nine per cent of the Canadian electorate is passionate about and inspired by the prospect of voting Liberal," Angus Reid wrote in the report.

What is there to be passionate about? Voting LPC to prevent a CPC government is by this point an established Canadian tradition. πŸ₯Ή

[–] mindbleach 16 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Ballot reform, for fuck's sake.

Approval Voting is where you check every name you like. Most votes wins. It's genuinely that simple, and there's no good reason what-so-ever it's not the global default.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Wow. It's hard to find a voting system I like less than FPTP, but you've found it! This only makes sense over STV if we don't have computers.

[–] mindbleach 7 points 7 months ago

STV only makes sense for multi-winner elections. It fundamentally does not pick the best candidate - just the first who can scrape together sufficient support. A person can be literally everyone's second choice and still lose.

Approval is a straight improvement over FPTP - there is no good reason, at all, to prefer FPTP. It completely eliminates the way similar candidates cannibalize each other's votes. It minimizes self-defeating efforts to be "strategic" by ranking no-chance buttheads higher, or only giving your preferred frontrunner half a vote.

If you're gonna do ranked ballots to pick one candidate then use a Condorcet method.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Can there be negative votes? So that not voting matters too

[–] mindbleach 10 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Nope.

What you're looking for is called Score Voting. Approval is just yes-or-meh. It is the simplest form of Score, and yet, it avoids a lot of self-defeating behaviors, has less reported regret than other systems, and somehow matches Condorcet results pretty reliably.

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[–] eestileib 15 points 7 months ago

The Liberal Party says "System working exactly as intended!"

[–] [email protected] 8 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'm lucky, in a sense, that I don't have to make this decision. The only viable candidates in my riding are the Conservatives and the NDP, so I can actually vote my conscience.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 7 months ago (1 children)

As is tradition. If you lean left, how could you vote for Conservatives?

[–] [email protected] 27 points 7 months ago (6 children)

I think you're missing the point. These aren't people who lean left:

Meanwhile, three in five (63 per cent) Liberal supporters said they are more motivated to prevent a Conservative government rather than to support Trudeau and Liberal policies.

It sounds to me like they are fairly middle folks who think the left is closer to the middle than the right is.

[–] xmunk 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I'd call those people left leaning - or at least left leaning compared to wherever the fuck the CPC has decided to go.

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