Home of the sh.itjust.works instance.
Nah, the users aren't causing problems, the content isn't illegal, and there's no impact to our users unless someone opts in to view those posts.
Leave it. If they start spamming communities outside their instance, then consider defederation.
Also, this should probably go in The Agora, not here.
Can you explain what' Agora is?
https://sh.itjust.works/c/agora
It's the voting community of this instance. Users (or admins) post discussions on rule/policy changes like your post here, they're discussed for a while, then an admin posts a vote thread for sh.itjust.works users to vote whether we should accept the change. Your post should go there.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
https://sh.itjust.works/c/agora
Basically it's a place for the community to discuss instance-wide changes like defederation or rule changes, and is named after the forum in ancient Greece. The process is:
This community is for general discussion about the instance, but most non-urgent actions need to go through the Agora first.
Thanks, I'd look into that.
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: [email protected]
Just because you don't like stuff doesn't automatically mean everyone needs to de-fed from them. Kinda stupid how many people call for de-fed for the most basic of things...
Certainly living up to generational stereotypes about never being able to remotely tolerate anything that they don't agree with.
I wonder if there's a market for a Reddit clone that is just a large language model that analyzes every post you make and makes more posts agreeing with whatever you said identically, and anytime you don't like what you see, you can just hit the ban button and every post even remotely like it is just removed because it's just a bunch of gibberish sputtered up by a large language model trying to copy you.
There is a market for everything. But people would probably figure out that none of the posts are real so nobody would use it anymore. Unless you made it into a game where you roleplay as a forum admin, somewhat akin to HyperSpace Outlaw.
You just described reddit ;)
Have you checked the numbers there?
Are any of those posts/users doing anything bad in particular? If you're worried about spam block and move on? De-fed is like using a nuke to kill a fly.
Meh, it's one C/ on the instance. This isn't hexbear or exploding heads type of problem. This is where blocking per C/ is used, not defederation. You block that one community, and the problem is solved.
As annoying as that kind of spam is (and the frequency of posts is spam tier), just because I'm not interested in the subject matter doesn't make it a problem by default.
The core of this instance is these confessions. It depends on if you see it as a christian (maybe cultist) propaganda. I see it as a one. And many other posts are very weird too.
Let's say, if there were 35k posts about scientology, would you find it weird, would ypu like to distance from it? Their mod is ill to collect and post them. It's, imho, better to isolate their instance and don't let them reach otner users, don't let them have what they want to achieve with their finding-of-jesus content.
I'm not seeing much of the posts outside that single community though. This makes it trivial to avoid.
And, no, I wouldn't see it as any different from scientology, or islam, or Buddhism, or taoism, or Hinduism, or whatever ism. When it isn't an instance wide issue, the answer isn't defederation. It's per-user blocking.
Let's be real, they aren't reaching anyone with the kind of bat-shit, overly long videos they're linking. Nobody has the attention span for that unless they're already indoctrinated into that kind of bat-shit crazy thing anyway. If I see them pop up in my all/federated feed, I'll block the community. Just like I do with any of the religion focused crazy C/s out there.
It's a matter of how the fediverse should work, imo. Defederation is the final step, not the first. The only times defederation is a first step is when the instance hosts illegal things that the defederating instance would have legal liability if the materials in question; when the instance is dangerous to the fediverse, and/or when it's nazis.
You can't federate with an instance that hosts loli, if you're located in a place where that's illegal. So you defederate as soon as possible.
When something that's going to destabilize lemmy/the fediverse by design, you can preemptively defederate.
And nobody likes nazis. We don't want a nazi bar, so we have to keep them out from the beginning.
Anything else? You start with blocks by users, then user initiated instance blocking (now that it's possible) or app based instance filtering, then consider defederation.
Since that instance isn't doing any of those big things, and the problem content is very localized, I would vote against defederation in the agora. Which, btw, is where any defederation is decided for sjw as an instance.
Do you have proof of their instance acting to proselytize here (or elsewhere in the fediverse)? I haven't seen any of their users doing it as individuals, and I found no threads planning such action. That is a big enough problem to change my vote if it ever comes up in the agora.
I felt like general spam and lunacy are enough to cut them off even though they play safe. Is it wrong considering their content?
But they aren't spamming elsewhere. There's no indication that the community is doing anything other than posting in their own community. The content itself is bland, boring, but crazy. What it isn't is inherently dangerous or bad. The only reason it counts as spam is the sheer volume. Since all it takes is a C/ block to prevent that spam, nothing else matters.
The rest of the instance is not harmful either, and none of the other communities have enough posts to be even close to spam levels. Defederation would remove access to ghost other communities and users.
Like someone else said, it's like using a nuke to get rid of a single fly. You can do a surgical strike and completely avoid the C/. If isn't like the posters there are out on other instances doing anything.
Unless you have proof of bad acts, and you haven't provided any, there's zero chance a defederation vote would succeed in the agora. This instance has a fairly consistent result on defederation issues when the INSTANCE being voted on isn't disruptive.
And, frankly, the content is fine. Or, as fine as any religion's more effusive elements. They aren't calling for pogroms or crusades, they aren't bashing other religions, they aren't calling for some kind of Christian uprising, nothing like that. It's just a bunch of religious nutters babbling about loving their religion. Which may be crazy, but it isn't something that rises to the nazi test.
If we apply your criteria to content re: lunacy, then we'd have to defederate from any instance with a busy political C/, because most of those are full of posts from people treating politics like a religion. Are we going to defederate from any instance that has a C/ where they post constant anti-(insert politician of choice here) memes? It's exactly the same thing.
If that's what you're arguing, that we defederate from any instance with crazies on it, bye-bye fediverse. Fuck I'm a left wing crazy, I just don't post about it. But there are C/s on this instance that are no better than the one you're objecting to, in terms of sane and rational posts. Should we defederate from ourselves?
I get it, though, I do. It's easy to get on the anti-religion train and just stoke the boiler all the way. Organized religion is fucking cancer. But that's irrelevant to federation as long as the offending material can be avoided by individuals. And, frankly, trying to outlaw any religion is a bad idea to begin with. And that's really what you're trying to do is go ham because you don't like that religion.
I can't support that way of thinking and would argue against defederation in the agora. I would argue against it even more vehemently than in this thread. Here, we're just casually discussing the idea (or that's what I'm doing anyway, this is casual for me lol). But if this was in the agora, where it would get voted on and possibly get the results you're wanting, I would actively oppose the proposition. It goes against the very principles of lemmy in specific, and the fediverse as a whole.
Thanks for this long-form answer of yours.
Seems like my position gets it's bashing even before voting. And it's not an issue worth leaving or whatever. I wanted to know what everyone think about it, even if I myself biased against it.
It's not even my hatred against religion, but the defenition of a harmful content. For me these videos of 'finding their God' is the entry content, like a first cigarette, a natural invitation. I'd argue having a public stall with that content in our mall is not great.
Another problem is that they joined the Fediverse with that archive instead of making a dedicated website. Can't blame them for being, probably, just a hobbyist. Either they added other communities around this archive, or they thought to host this archive after that, it's a little weird they didn't think it would be seen by many others. Or they wanted it? Either way, I find isolating this collection is a good thing. It should've probably happened on their end.
Offending materials can be avoided by individuals, np, yet we don't usually write ublock filters ourself. We choose lists of rules in order to optimize our efforts. Instead of every person finding a way to block that ad banner, one person does it and helps other save time.
It all comes down to how universal the despise to that said banner and if you trust someone to choose it for you. As I see, both despise isn't that universal and users don't want their feed to be dictated over such a thing. I accept that.
As Lemmy proved it's there to stay, I'd like to see how the discourse of policies and defed\refed processes would go. This being not one Reddit but a threadball of many teams and userbases makes it interesting.
Would I find it weird? Yeah. Would I want to distance myself from it? Maybe. If I was the administrator of an instance with tens of thousands of users, I wouldn't simply defederate if they kept their garbage spam on their instance. If instances made a habit of defederating with anyone they don't like, we wouldn't have a Fediverse.
There's true to your words. It's just my opinion that every other actor in fediverse would benefit and won't suffer from cutting them off. What can be the reason to enact such isolation? For some it's piracy, or porn, or politics, or anything illegal. For me it's 35k religious ads not kept in private or anything, but kept there to appear in everyone's feeds. And seems like my opinion or argumentation are unpopular, so whatever.
Just sub to things you care about and ignore the rest. I almost never look at all, and if I do, it's only on my local instance, so I pretty much only see stuff I opted into.
I recommend you do the same. Or just block the handful of communities you really dislike and continue using all.
Defederation is how we get silos like beehaw, which is antithetical to a federated platform. Defederation should know be used if an instance causes active harm (e.g. users constantly troll and admins are unresponsive). Having stupid content only impacts those who look at it, and it's easy to block, trolls impact everyone.
I think it's worth a block. Many think it isn't.
Sure, then block it. Your decision doesn't need to impact others.
My thought process was that it can be categorized as a harmful content many instances ban. But yeah, it seems not many people see it as problematic as I do, and more interested in their feed not being cleansed for such an offense. Glad to bring it out nevertheless and seeing what others think. I value that.
Just reading through the comments, OP what part of its already contained don’t you understand?
People are allowed to be fucking weirdos here as long as they aren’t bugging others. End of story.
Why picking Fediverse for a website content? It's not contained if it's randomly shown to other users across the Fediverse. They could've created a dedicated WP site just for their archive of links. End of story.
Yet, here it is, with a content that can be characterized as an entry into their religion, like shampoo samples, and all Fediverse is open for their posts randomly appearing.
It's either they don't know it leaks, or they do it intentionally. Either way I myself vouch for a ban. That's my pov.
I can’t help but feel you’re doing this on purpose…
Can't blame you. My holiday drunkness may seem like a thoughtful campaign, but it's more like a short episode of attention I won't remember in a mounth.
I really do understand your concern, cults are obviously horrific. If you really and truly think this is a cult and will/is/has hurt people you need to document document document.
People take evidence and cases more seriously than they do when you’re both just exchanging thoughts back and forth. I’d recommend not using this account if you do plan on doing any sort of recon or investigation and I would educate yourself on what admins of instances can and can’t see. If this is a cult you could be in danger if they’re violent or aggressive.
Thanks for taking your time and thinking about my safety. That's my fifth or sixth active account I use simultaneously, and I'm from russia, and I talk shit about it's government living there. Guess if they can't get me, these supposed cultists wouldn't too.
I'm yet to do a real osint research on what this thing is. If I'd find something, I'd take it to Agora, as some suggested to me. No evidence yet, just confusion. You'd see me if I'd find anything worth talking.
Be careful of gamblers fallacy 😉
I would, thanks (:
Just because you don't like the content doesn't mean you have to instantly defederate. I am getting really tired of this increasing trend of wanting to immediately defederate just because some users don't like or agree with the content. I don't like that content either, but it is so easy for me as an individual user to block content I don't like to see.
Unless the users on that instance are maliciously posting illegal content in droves onto other instances or something, there is no reason defederation should be considered. Defederation is a last resort option, not a first response to something you don't like or agree with.
Posts there are a spam to indocrinate other users.
Imagine them, but being about how they've found their place in the church of scientology.
Besides that spammer, there are not many users, not much content. It can be sawed off without anyone noticing that shit.
Of that one problematic community, there are like 6 users. Just block the users and the community. Very easy.
Why should we punish people that decided to create an account on that instance just because of the like 6 people posting content you don't like by removing the other user's right to access this instance via their account on that instance?
Why did they create their accounts there in the first place? Do you really want to hear them?
Well, maybe they just picked a community more or less at random. I, for example, don't have a particular reason to have picked sh.itjust.works. It was simply the first community I came across. Do you have a reason why you picked this community specifically instead of any of the others?
I migrated a couple of times before. Sh.itjust.works promoted itself by having it's communities and users active, not being heard of in fedidrama and for, like, it just works and don't go offline or render itself inaccessible by other means. If I could be interested in a local c/greentext community and get deffed, I'd just register another account elsewhere. There's no fee, no verification cans, and some people even programmed a migration script to carry your bookmarks and subscriptions onto a new one.
See the posts column in this screenshot for context:
That testimonial community at the top is the only spamming one as far as I can immediately tell. Every user is able to easily block that community with two clicks. I'm personally not inclined to defederate from an instance without multiple communities/whole instances dedicated to spamming, tons of bots, rampant and/or admin-sanctioned bigotry, rampant trolling, illegal content (that the admins already defederate automatically on their own), or something causing an existential crisis within lemmy (like threads). I don't think lemmy.staphup.nl qualifies on spamming. If I were admin of that instance, I'd definitely ban the testimonial community though.
Just block it if you don't like it ffs
Lol, true.
