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Protests erupt in Argentina against President Javier Milei’s economic shock decree (argentinareports.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[+] [email protected] 259 points 6 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

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[-] [email protected] 67 points 6 months ago

Nah it's not that it's libertarianism failing it's just that idiots version of it failing

What they'll say when it fails or next time someone else tries to implement their ideals

[-] [email protected] 42 points 6 months ago

then immediately turn around and mock communists for saying something similar.

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[-] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

But what will Lemmy communists say when you point out USSR and China?

[-] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

To be fair USSR after communism was leagues better than USSR before communism ever could have been. But it's not exactly proving much pointing out that an extremely unequal authoritarian regime is worse than a more equal but still authoritarian regime.

I don't think the comparison works anyway because this is a true example of exactly what most libertarians have wet dreams of, while with communism people try to use e.g. the USSR and PRC to discredit leftism as a whole (especially socialism) even though any leftist worth their salt would realize authoritarianism is bad and creates a dangerous hierarchy, which is why Marx and Engels specified their ideologies to be democratic.

[-] ThrowawayPermanente 1 points 6 months ago

I measure a country's success by the quantity of weapons they produce

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[-] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

He just didn't libertarian hard enough.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Nah it’s not that it’s libertarianism failing it’s just that idiots version of it failing

That's what Communists always say, the only one they worship is Lenin cuz he didn't have time to do anything anyway.

[-] ThrowawayPermanente 2 points 6 months ago

He had time to build the gulags

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[-] [email protected] 40 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I'm not a libertarian, I'm a social democrat.

The last century has been a total and unmitigated disaster for Argentina. The two options Argentinians had in this election were:

More of the same by the guy who oversaw inflation reaching 160% (100% chance of things getting worse)
A total wild card (99.9% chance of things getting worse)

Unsurprisingly, they went for the latter. I don't think anti-libertarians get to gloat in this context, given it's the Argentinian establishment which has overseen one of the most remarkable examples of total state-collapse and economic failure in modern history.

[-] [email protected] 19 points 6 months ago

This makes a lot of sense if you pretend he didn't say or promise anything during the campaign.

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[-] [email protected] 17 points 6 months ago

The calculation shouldn't be "chance of things getting worse", but "expected value of how much worse it'll get".

[-] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago

I don't actually know anything. But casually to me it looked like a choice between 160% chance of it getting worse and a 300% chance of getting worse. And it's not very surprising at all in these circumstances many go for the latter for all sorts of reasons (and delusions). But I don't actually know anything.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

You should probably read at least a little about Argentina's recent history before commenting then...

[-] [email protected] 5 points 6 months ago

More of the same by the guy who oversaw inflation reaching 160% (100% chance of things getting worse)

A total wild card (99.9% chance of things getting much worse)

FTFY

[-] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

That's bad math. Yes, if you put the same people in office. There's nearly 100% chance that they will continue doing what they have been doing. Good or bad. But if you put a lunatic with a grudge against reality in office. Who is aligned, or would align himself with the people who caused the problem before. You have 150% chance that things will get worse.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

You have 150% chance

This isn’t exactly the best math either.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Yes, it was a jab at the logic. Things can always get worse. Always. Change for the sake of change is a bad proposition. So now the people causing the problems before aren't in direct control. They have a go between patsy. Poised to push awful social oppression openly that they'd likely only thought about in wet dreams. And a large chunk of misguided populous supporting it. Because "it's different".

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Oof, yeah that's not a good choice.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Mate one dude was hearing voices and talks with his deceased dogs...how can you say "wild card" with a straight face?

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[-] [email protected] 11 points 6 months ago

What's the previous case study?

[-] prole 33 points 6 months ago

This is a good one: https://newrepublic.com/article/159662/libertarian-walks-into-bear-book-review-free-town-project

The book is called, "A Libertarian Walks into a Bear."

[-] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago

Look up Kansas Ave Oklahoma. It got so bad for them they had to cut school to 4 days per week and that was before the pandemic.

[-] Bakkoda 6 points 6 months ago

Lol what policies? Everyone for themselves?

[-] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

Who is John Galt? Looks like we're about to find out.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

It's the key ideological problem with the book. Rand was right that people do not inherently owe anyone else the fruits of their labor, but wrong about who was holding the world on their shoulders. It wasn't the handful of elite, but the masses without whom the elite would be living in caves and running from bears.

Who is John Galt? We the people are.

And yes, throughout history pretty much every authoritarian regime ultimately collapses or sends their country back decades in progress by not knowing that lesson.

Yet it never seems to actually be learned.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

They'll come out of the woods and start claiming he wasn't a true libertarian.

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[-] [email protected] 115 points 6 months ago

From everything I've heard about the election in Argentina, it was the meeting of "Anything is better than this" and "it can always get worse." The former won, and proved the latter correct.

[-] MarcoPOLO 14 points 6 months ago

Argentina needs shock therapy to realize milei is a dumbass

[-] loutr 9 points 6 months ago

That's what I thought about the US and Trump, yet here we are...

[-] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

We had the same in the UK with Brexit and Boris. We assumed that because everything is shit, backing people looking to do drastic changes that experts agreed was horrific was worth it. It wasn't, and now people are even poorer...

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[-] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

No, the current policies are just getting reality and practice closer together.

IRL their money was ALREADY devalued soooooo much, he didn't do anything to change that, just adjusted it to reality.

Subsidies on imported oil is CRAZY for a bankrupt country. YOU GUYS HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD WHAT IT'S LIKE TO HAVE DECADES OF 100% OR MORE INFLATION PER YEAR.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Perfect summary

[-] [email protected] 38 points 6 months ago

Fuck around and find out. I'm so sorry for everyone who was duped by libertarians pretending they will do anything for regular people and not just the wealthy shareholders, everyone who was held back by economic sanctions in a war against 'muh socialism', and all those who saw the obvious coming but were dragged into it by the other rubes. This is going to suck. I hope the protests will work

[-] [email protected] 33 points 6 months ago

He's only going to crush harder the more they resist.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

At some point, I risk a coup.

[-] [email protected] 30 points 6 months ago

Oh joy. Skyrocketing rent combined with plummeting wages.

This isn't going to destroy their economy at all...

[-] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

That’s a right wing populist figure for you.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 6 months ago

Can this guy step down yet?

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[-] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago

Protests of FREE LOADING PROFITEERS, yeah.

[-] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

They are chanting against the IMF... why?, I thought....

oh...

BUENOS AIRES, Dec 9 (Reuters) - A U.S. delegation gave its support to Argentine President-elect Javier Milei over talks with the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and developing its lithium sector during a meeting in Buenos Aires on Saturday, a White House official told Reuters.

Juan Gonzalez, adviser to U.S. President Joe Biden and the National Security Council's Western Hemisphere senior director, said the talks, a day ahead of Milei's inauguration, were "very positive" and focused on the country's embattled economy.

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/us-offers-argentinas-milei-support-imf-lithium-white-house-adviser-2023-12-10/

Ah yes! a moment of clarity. Carry on, then. As usual.

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this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023

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