560
Scientists warn of 'societal collapse' on Earth with worsening climate situation
(www.irishstar.com)
this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2024
560 points (96.7% liked)
World News
38878 readers
3006 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Societal collapse is the best thing that can happen right now, capitalism will not save the workers nor the environment. Only a complete revolution can save the workers, the environment, and the future of humanity.
If you take a look at history, you'll notice a pattern:
And honestly, I don't think that the left at it's current state is anywhere near strong, large, or unified enough to be the one to rise from the ashes. It's better to do what we can now, and save the revolution for when we are able to actually succeed at it.
We'll burn down capitalism one piece at a time.
societal collapse will be even worse for the ecosystem. we have created unspeakable machines that will unleash terrible consequences without us to properly maintain them. see nuclear reactors (which i support). there's no 'throw your hands up and surrender' solution. it all requires us keeping the machine running until we can safely dismantle it. it's possible but the means to do it is a bit nasty.
Your accelerationist bullshit does nothing but harm us all
I'm not an accelerationist, but they aren't wrong.
it's not that I want a collapse, but at some point soon(very soon) the only answer will be for a collapse.
I stopped fighting against corpos years ago because the only way to stop them would restrict my freedom and take me away from my family. all I can do now is to stay informed, plan, and educate myself and family.
I'm not rich. I have no bunker. my mind is sharp. my goal is to survive what comes next. not because I want it to happen, but because corpos won't stop and my government sold me out long before I was born.
I'm not all for his rhetoric that it will be an improvement, but I'm not doubting it won't happen.
Better to understand it is inevitable and prepare for it instead of sticking your head in the sand about it.
Even better to understand that there may be no coming back. We’ve burned bridges behind us and populated way beyond any ability to survive without it. We desperately need this society to succeed because there may be no alternative anymore
So back to the rule of kings and Strongman Despots.
Because that's what a social collapse will get you every time. There will be no "worker's paradise".
Do you actually think that?
As though we just do societal collapse on Wednesday and then start living our best lives on Thursday?
Commenter never said that. So you're just strawmannning. Do you honestly think capiatlism and consumerism will do an about face and start taking care of the rapidly degrading environment? If not, it would seem that we then we need to change how we behave, soon-- right? Accelerationists are at least doing something, even if it may not be the right plan, while you are whining to keep the exact status quo going thats killing us all, and doing nothing to improve things .
To use a metaphor: dont criticise the fat guy working out at the gym while you youself are sitting on your butt, are also fat and have ice cream on your face. If you want to criticise, get off your ass and get to work on something better. Otherwise shut it and let the adults figure out how to save your ass while you do nothing.
I didn't say that the commenter said that. Ironically, you're just strawmanning.
Anyone suggesting that societal collapse is a good outcome doesn't really understand what societal collapse entails.
I also didn't suggest that capitalism will save us - that's another straw man.
Your metaphor is disingenuous.
This commenter is the fat guy eating burgers all day trying to bring on a coronary because it's inevitable so you may as well get it over with, all while claiming that's a better outcome than wasting time and effort at the gym trying to lose weight.
If capitalism is allowed to continue it will render humanity extinct. If we collapse now, and are reduced to a fraction of our population this century, humanity may live.
I don't enjoy that being the best option we have at this point. It brings me no joy. But what brings me less joy is knowing that we won't even make a choice. We will continue blindly waddling along and as capitalism consumes the world, we will wonder who will save us. And no one will.
Is anyone actually claiming that we're on a path to extinction? That's hyperbole.
This type of thinking is not constructive in any way.
We are in the midst of the sixth mass extinction event the earth has experienced. As ecosystems collapse, organisms at the top of the food web are in peril. Yes, humans are in danger of extinction.
What a silly thing to say.
You realise extinction requires no living specimens to exist right?
Some number of humans will prevail even if the only thing left to eat is slime mold.
Climate change is a big deal. The future is very bleak. People with the power to mitigate the damage are doing the opposite.
Claiming that human extinction is possible or likely about as helpful as suggesting that ancient aliens have the solution.
What a silly thing to say, indeed. Of course it's possible.
Oh yes, silly me. Anything is possible.
Let's all bemoan the possibility that a nearby supernova destroys all life on planet earth next week, rather than confronting the nuance of the problems we face and developing constructive solutions.
Interesting thought. What is the nutritional profile for slime mold, can humans survive eating just slime mold?
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-47540-7
Don't miss this bit:
Oh sweetheart.
Did you google "human extinction science" and link the first result without reading it?
The part you quoted just says modern extinction risks are out of scope for this study.
It does not say that extinction is probable or likely.
I'm not sure if you're being disingenuous or you're just not very bright.
"much higher extinction probabilities" doesn't really mean anything.
The probabilities referred to in this paper are very low. Less than 1 in 14,000 in an extraordinarily conservative estimate, 87,000 is probably a more useful number. So each year you roll that 14,000 sided dice with 1 chance of becoming extinct that year.
This is where it says that:
So, a "much higher probability" might be 2 in 87,000 for example. Much higher than 1 in 87,000 but still not very likely. More to the point, the paper is saying it doesn't consider those factors, they're out of scope, the methodology used in the paper is incapable of assessing the likelihood of nuclear annihilation.
Honestly, if this paper is the best argument you have that human extinction is likely then you really have nothing.
Look, I know it's not something anyone wants to confront, but I'm not sending it out of malice, or to attack you. There's no need to be condescending.
I simply want to be realistic about the world we live in. From my point of view it is better to be concerned about the possibility of human extinction and act as though it is a potential outcome, rather than to pretend that our species has wholly conquered the laws of nature and is indestructible.
It's impossible not to sound condescending when talking to someone who's just making stuff up and claiming that it's a plausible assertion.
You're not being realistic, you're being dramatic.
Human extinction is not a realistic nor likely outcome to the problems humanity presently faces.
Even in the worst projections for climate change, some areas of the globe will still be able to support life.
Alright. I'm sorry to have annoyed you. I was just hoping for a discussion.
We have a difference of opinion and that's alright. My concerns surrounding the Holocene extinction event triggering total ecosystem collapse need not be yours.
I'm a human behind a screen, just like you. It's free to be kind to people, even when you disagree with them.
You haven't annoyed me. I'm sorry if my manner offends you.
No one in this thread has been able to demonstrate that human extinction is likely.
That's totally fair, and to clarify my own stance: I don't think it's likely, or even possible that the human population will drop to 0 in my lifetime, let alone in the next few hundred years.
I'm primarily concerned about a compounding of factors that lead toward an increasingly higher probability of that outcome. I'm thus unwilling to take a "we don't have to worry about human extinction because it's statistically unlikely" stance. I'm also not attempting to assert that that's your stance, either. I don't know enough about what you believe to make any assertions about that at this point.
I really appreciate your reply, and I'm not trying to be snarky, here. I came to Lemmy, initially, looking for higher levels of discourse than are available on Reddit, and I get a little high-and-mighty about that. So I also apologize if I'm coming off as an ass.
I'm afraid it's not going to save anyone, because it's going to be a collapse with many casualities mainly on the side of the poor, not a revolution. I imagine it as a social disaster. The rich will be ok.
The rich are only safe if they keep every grain of gunpowder and lump of c4 in there with them.
The rich will be ok and their kids will repopulate earth. With a plow, a hammer and a sicle. Oh the irony...
Richfolk are known for their strong survival skills.
My odds are on them being the first ones killed and looted when the shit really hits the fan.
Probably by the very armies and security forces they hired to protect them from that in the first place, once they realize that the rest of society collapsing means there probably won't be consequences for forcibly inheriting their employer's estate.
Or maybe it will be whoever holds the keys to the safety system they built when they realised they'd be at the mercy of their security forces.
What's the richman gonna give his army? Money?
His army's got the guns. It's one versus the entire staff, on a private island, at the collapse of society, and you think the guys with all guns and no food are gonna treat their boss with the civility that's expected in a typical employee/employer relationship?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Societal collapse doesn’t guarantee anything for people who want any kind of revolution
Most people forget they are probably just gonna die in an apocalypse.
We are gonna die anyway. At least with societal collapse there will be a chance that not everyone will die from climate collapse.
We can put paper bags over our heads if we forgot our towels though.
Human death and suffering are guaranteed...
Societal collapse is enviable, the downfall of humanity however is not.
It means industry and industrial pollution stops.
Except it might not. In fact it might increase the dependency on fossil fuels as supply chain and the electrical grid break down.
Covid lockdown taught us it basically just needs most cars of the road. There's a million ways we COULD fix everything, basically overnight. We just won't
I doubt they'd be a net increase. So much CO2 is from industry and average people aren't going to know how or were to get their own coal or oil.
Idk... I'd rather just fix this issue and not have to find out the hard way 🤷
We had easy solutions to covid, but people decided that "their way of life" was more important then other people's lives.