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Casual reminder
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2024
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Lemmy Shitpost
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Yall need to learn some history.
The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting "centrist" Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on "A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war"
Hindenburg won the election, getting more votes than either the communist or fascist candidates.
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, then proceeded to make Hitler the chancellor and staff positions of power with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn't get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
It looks a lot like in a way History is repeating itself: the Democrat Establishment in the US (who are a hard neoliberals, not lefties) fielded directly and without a Primary a guy like Biden who is less than in his prime and even supports an ethno-Fascist regime commiting Genocide (and, more importantly, is unwilling to walk back on that support even to improve his odds of winning against Trump, which is what we are being told is the most important thing in the World) all of which is making it far more likely that the Fascists will get power.
There are vast contradictions between what we are being told is the danger of Trump getting elected and the DNC and Biden persistently making choices that increase the chances of Trump getting elected and not walking back on those.
Surelly if "Stop Trump" is the most important thing in the World for them, the Democrat Establishment too would be walking towards the wishes of the electorate not just trying to push the electorate to do all the walking towards the wishes of the Democrat Establishment.
Agreed.
We can't say we must do everything to stop Trump and then shrug and say hold your nose and vote for the guy that's polling poorly.
That's not trying everything that's people in power wanting one outcome that are willing to risk everything they say they don't want because the scared masses should hopefully fall in line without even a backup plan for it not working.
This isn't trying and doing everything to stop a fascist dictator taking power this is capitalist conservatives trying to stretch out their win for a little bit longer using what they think is a sure win. This can only ever end poorly even if it's just another 4 years later from now.
the democrat establishment is already getting what they want from voters and the system and they won't get any of the blame should they lose; so they both have no reason to change nor do they have anything to risk by trying something new.
those contradictions you referenced are the centrists version of fox news stoking the culture war, but more vague because they're trying to appeal both both centrists and leftist; that and project 2025 are the talking points that the moderates are parroting to justify against voting progressively, thus proving martin luther king's opinion of the the american moderate is true.
Lets not bury the lede. You run weak Democrats, you comprise with fascists (or just do the policies yourself; Biden's border bill, Congressional support for making criticism of Israel a hate crime) : this is the path you put us on.
and lets not forget what stopped hitler wasnt electoralism. it was the soviets, and they needed force at that point.
And the Ukrainians, and the Poles, and the French resistance, and the British, and the Americans, and the Canadians, and...
the soviets were the ones to bear the weight of all the casualties. while your heroes were sipping tea waiting for them to be destroyed by the nazis...
the british, really? americans? yall need to open a history book. ever heard of operation paperclip? or how anticommunist most of these were?
Exactly, the country that shared a massive land border with the NAZIs and was a direct target of their aggression suffered many more casualties than the ones what didn't, who'da thunk it? Without the combined efforts of essentially the entire rest of the world, the USSR would have been toast.
yall need some history. the USSR and germany did not share borders until much later, the west was nowhere to be found by the time they reached berlin.
the us mostly really only helped by the end when victory over nazis was already on the horizon.
They didn't share a border until the Soviets and NAZIs jointly invaded their neighbor Poland.
no such thing as "jointly invaded"
Nah they're an .ml user... It's all about soviets. USSR is literal utopia to them and didn't do anything wrong.
Forget that the Nazi efforts were always more focused on the western fronts...
Wowsers, that's horrible! I'll make sure not to vote for Biden if he nominates Trump as his VP.
During Hitlers Ascent to Power, the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them. And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means "liberals". They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
Cool. In this comparison, none of that matters and the Tweet has a completely valid point.
Unless you suspect Biden will be appointing Trump in his cabinet if he wins?
We've been saying from day one, that if Biden doesn't move to the left and use every tool at his disposal to improve people's material conditions, Trump's going to win in 2024.
Biden didn't just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is the closest thing he could have done to handing Trump the presidency, short of appointing him VP and stepping down.
This is one of the worst examples of confirmation bias I have ever seen. The Biden Administration's entire record is out there for you to peruse, and you pick 3 things out of hundreds, possibly thousands, that you think justify your comparison.
Outflanking the rights is a bad decision, because you put their extreme positions into mainstream.
You really expect to be taken seriously saying some idiotic shit like this?
Your hyperbole is over the top. Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices, which is the part of the economy everyone is most concerned with. Last time an Executive Order was used to price fix the food industry, it blew up in Nixon’s face. Supply chain constraints were industry wide, and when the order expired, prices went up far past standard inflation. The other big concern is housing, which could be addressed with legislation if Democrats had congressional majority.
I completely agree about support of Israel. The only comparison is knowing Trump will be worse for Palestinians. It’s terrible to reconcile, but those are the options.
Abstaining isn’t voting for Trump, it’s refusing to stand in his way.
Just a reminder to folks emphasizing that retailers used that as cover for corporate greed, and a lot of it was lies. Various links:
https://dailymontanan.com/2024/03/27/trade-watchdog-big-retailers-used-supply-chain-problems-to-inflate-grocery-costs/
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/21/us/politics/grocery-prices-pandemic-ftc.html
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2023/07/retailers-have-been-cutting-costs-so-why-are-prices-still-so-high/
Great quote from that Harvard one:
The FTC report that is the basis for the first three links above: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/03/ftc-releases-report-grocery-supply-chain-disruptions
And don't get me started on shrinkflation.
That’s true of the post-pandemic food industry prices for sure. That description was regarding the failure of Nixon’s attempt to price fix with an Executive Order.
Oh sorry I was clearly not paying much attention to what I was reading. Thanks for the gentle correction.
No problem. Thank you for citing sources in your comment. I always appreciate substantiation in this world of misinformation.
Biden waited 3.5 years to end title 42 and tried to close the border. He has deported more people than Trump.
He literally does though. But there's a million other things he could have done when he had control. Instead we just get excuses about how powerless the party controlling both houses and the presidency was because of Manchin or the parliamentarian or the SCOTUS or some rules the dems set for themselves or norms or whatever.
There's no point in quibbling about whether Biden was less bad than trump, these actions decrease how many people will vote for him. Implementing policy that makes you lose the election is refusing to stand in republican's way.
Wrong.
Biden ended the Muslim Ban on Jan 21, 2021, the day after he was inaugurated.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2021/01/21/biden-executive-order-ends-muslim-travel-ban-donald-trump/4240420001/
He ended Title 42 on May 20, 2022, but the measure was stopped by federal judges. It took until May of 2023 to be completed.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/20/title-42-border-judge-ruling-migrants/
Nobody is talking about the Muslim ban, we're talking about the more recent attempt to close the mexican border.
But it's irrelevant, you're still missing the point.
My point is that Biden's unpopular actions decrease how many people will vote for him. This is how Biden ensures Trump will come to power.
Did you not read the second half of my comment? He ended Title 42 a year and a half after taking office. Federal judges stopped it for a year.
You wrote three and a half years.
You fabricate information in your comments often. I will always call out misinformation.
Cite your sources and stop with the lies.
Incidentally, you quoted my point about the Muslim ban in your previous comment. So yeah, we were certainly talking about it.
Biden has done plenty of good where Trump did nothing or actively worsened things for the working class, minorities, and the planet. You only select Biden’s worst policies to define his presidency.
It doesn't matter if his excuse was some court he can just ignore and face no consequences asked him to keep it in place or if did it on a whim, he had the power to change it, he didn't use it. It was in place for like 3 and a half years.
You're not calling out misinformation, you're quibbling.
You inflated his inaction on Title 42 by two years. Quibbling my ass. I’m calling you a liar. This is not the first time I’ve called you out on false information.
Something tells me it won’t be the last.
He took an action that took 3 years to complete instead of ending it on day one and telling the courts to fuck off.
That's keeping it in place for 3 years.
This isn't misinformation, this is you being intentionally dense.
POTUS is the head of the Executive Branch. He has no control over the Judicial Branch other than appointing judges in the event of vacancy.
Telling them to “fuck off” is meaningless nonsense.
Also, it still wasn’t three years. From inauguration in January of 2021 to May of 2022. You seem to really want to be right. You’d probably have more success if you cited accurate information.
Oh no it was closer to 2.5 years than 3.5 years!
Come on, you know this doesn't refute my point.
The SCOTUS has no means to enforce its decisions. It knows this and has historically kowtowed to the executive when faced with its own marginalization.
The president literally can just ignore them, as Trump did when they made a ruling he didn't like such as DACA. There's some other precedents: https://revealnews.org/blog/a-brief-history-of-presidents-telling-so-called-judges-to-get-lost/
As I said, it was a year and a half when he ended Title 42. It was two and a half years due to Federal court. Your initial claim was three and a half years. Is it that hard to admit that you’re wrong?
I’m done with your repeated misrepresentation of my argument, and childish suggestions that “he can just do what he wants” and tell the judge to “fuck off.”
Good night.
You shouldn't engage with this guy. Its always a bait and switch/ false premise/ straw man with this guy.
You make a point about an actual bill (the mexican border bill), he makes it about trump and a muslim ban.
Its always in bad faith. Its a condition of blue MAGA.
Read the thread you’re so confident in condemning.
I cited my statements while your friend here repeatedly made false claims.
The Mexican Border bill you’re referring to is an Executive Order, not congressional legislation. Trump’s border Executive Order was the Muslim ban. Neither of which required congressional approval, and therefore are directly equatable.
Maybe you two should get a place together in misinformation land.
Just downvote and move along.
Blue fash is still fash. They aren't an allie.
In 2016 I voted for Bernie in the primary, and Hillary in the election.
Using my civic duty to compromise for the lesser of two evils does not make me a fascist.
Name calling is unproductive and childish. Have a conversation or find someone else to use as your stepladder to superiority.
If you look at many people’s material conditions during Trump and during Biden, they haven’t gotten better. You can say whatever you want about Biden’s policies, his cabinet appointments, and how much Democrats have done when they hold power, but at the end of the day it hasn’t changed most folks’ lives one bit. It might be good metric-wise, but until folks feel like they’re better off it doesn’t matter.
Also, it’s hilarious to me how much shit Republicans seem to get done even when they don’t hold the House, Senate, and White House together, but the minute Republicans get one of those, suddenly it’s “oh shit Democrats can’t do anything”. It’s like Republicans are playing with nukes and Democrats are showing up with rubber band guns.
And no, I won’t be voting for Biden, I’ll be voting third party. And I know, you think “a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump”, but I don’t give a shit. I’ve been seeing this same “at least I’m not…” shit for 25 years and watching our country be sold to the highest bidder under both parties. At this point, if we can’t figure out shit out, we deserve to be razed to the ground.
I think it's more like Trump getting elected and he is appointing Putin as US president. Which isn't that far off, is it?