By that you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank, and not 'The Jews must be driven to the sea', right?
this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
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By that you mean the illegal settlements in the West Bank
This was the interpretation I upvoted for, so I hope it's what was meant.
Oh sweet summer child.
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(33 replies)
Palestinians have been repeatedly kicked out of their homes for decades and decades ever since the late 40s, with their lands, homes and lives destroyed over and over again. An Israeli person born into the conflict who hasn't actively supported ethnic cleansing isn't guilty. This is a cursed problem because Palestinians deserve to have all the land back, but there are plenty of innocent Israelis who do not deserve to be robbed of their homes due to the crimes of previous generations.
Since Israel's actions have made a 2-state solution impossible, the only potential just solution would be a single state where both Palestinians and Israelis are free and equal citizens, and Palestinians are paid reparations. This is currently impossible because both populations are immersed in a cycle of violence and desire for revenge. So we should, at the very moment, focus on solutions that seek to immediately stop the continued murders, and hope that this calms down the bloodlust as the months and years come by. I don't see any way in which this is possible without the joint efforts of the historical allies of Israel and Hamas twisting their arms in order to prevent further abuse, and possibly establish a justice system that oversees and judges the crimes from actors of one side against the other.
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Are the Arab nations that expelled the Jews in the 40s and told them to go to Israel, going to give them their homes and citizenship back?
Didn't think so.
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Boy what a hoot these comments are
I knew coming in here they'd be an absolute shitshow and they have not disappointed a bit
If the cartels took complete control of Mexico, stopped all elections, and then stated their goal was to kill all Americans; do you think that we might start patrolling our border a little harder and deliver Mexico a bit of freedom?
The current situation is an absolute disaster and a sad case for innocent civilians who couldn’t even vote out Hamas if they wanted to. But there is a reason that Israel is in the West Bank in the first place, there will never be peace in that region until Hamas is stripped of all power in Gaza. Israel is surrounded by religious extremists on all sides that would genocide them if given the chance.
If the cartels took complete control of Mexico
So, in this situation does Mexico still have an economy? I assume tourism has stopped, but are they still a petroleum exporter? Do they still make cars and trucks for export? Do they still grow Avocados and sell them to the US? Because the Palestinians in Gaza don't really have an economy to speak of, so unless you first reduce Mexico's economy to something barely self-sustaining, it really isn't a fair comparison.
then stated their goal was to kill all Americans
Not much of a cartel if they're killing their best customers.
we might start patrolling our border a little harder
See, that's a key difference. Nobody's saying that Israel shouldn't patrol their own border. What's a bigger issue is that they're patrolling the other borders too. Israel is in a position to cut Gaza off completely. Israel can completely shut off water, food, fuel and power to Gaza. Even before this conflict they shut off tourism and fishing.
In your scenario, imagine the US Navy had carrier strike groups in the Gulf of Mexico and along the Pacific coast, preventing even fishing boats from leaving the Mexican shores. Now imagine the Guatemala and Belize borders were closed too, so that the entire country of Mexico was essentially a prison. That's the situation in Gaza.
Also, in your scenario, is the US government encouraging Americans to move to Mexico and set up little American compounds there, either by building their own houses or by kicking Mexicans out of theirs and moving in? When Americans go to Mexico and take over a Mexican house, are those Americans protected by the US military? And do they get the protection of US laws, as if the families still lived in the US?
there is a reason that Israel is in the West Bank in the first place
Yes, they have extremely unfriendly relationships with almost every neighbouring country, and they seized that territory after one of the many wars with those neighbours, and have continued to occupy it counter to international law. That, of course, leads to extremely unfriendly relationships with almost every neigbouring country, which leads to conflict, which leads to a need to try to control that territory.
there will never be peace in that region until Hamas is stripped of all power in Gaza
And Hamas (or a group like Hamas) will always be popular in Gaza until people in Gaza have a reason to stop hating Israel, which will only happen when Israel changes the way it treats them. But, Israel is unlikely to treat them better because they know that the people there support Hamas (or groups like Hamas) because of how Israel treats them.
I appreciate this post as it adds needed context to the situation especially about the power imbalance between Israel and Palestine that my post doesn’t touch on (I wasn’t trying to mislead, just keep things simple)
Israel, for better or worse (mostly worse for Palestinians in Gaza) get treated like the US’ little brother because they are in an ever important geopolitical location for a US Ally so they get away with more than they should. The violence against Palestinians then creates a vicious cycle of shows of force and retaliation that helps the current Israel regime maintain power and aid as well.
Like a said it’s a horrible situation and there is room to be anti-hamas and pro-palestinian and room to criticize the IDF’s actions and not be anti-Semitic. Thank you for your comment
Yeah, I agree with this post. It's a really fucked up situation. In addition to what you mentioned, there are the various Arab neighbours of Israel whose policies have mostly made the problem worse. There's Iran funding / supporting Hamas. Syria and Iran funding / supporting Hezbollah. Qatar hosting Hamas leadership. Jordan and Egypt refusing to allow Palestinian refugees into their countries.
The main point I was making was that there's support for Hamas in Gaza because of how badly the Palestinians in Gaza are treated by Israel. The Palestinians in Gaza are treated horribly by Israel, partially to punish them for supporting Hamas, and partially to try to make it harder for Hamas to attack them. A military operation can't defeat Hamas, even if they kill every current Hamas fighter, the collateral damage will just convince more people to join Hamas. The only thing that has any hope of working is to destroy the support for Hamas. But, the Hamas terrorist attack has worked spectacularly. I don't mean how effective they were in killing and capturing Israelis, but in terms of provoking the exact response from Israel they wanted. Israel is playing into the hands of Hamas in exactly the same way that the US played into the hands of Osama bin Laden in its response to the 9/11 attacks.
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Gaza West Bank and Israel all have to be dissolved. "Give the land back" implies land can be owned at all, which fundamentally violates the right of others to freedom of movement.
Guthrie said it best,
There was a big, high wall there that tried to stop me
A sign was painted said "Private Property"
But on the backside, it didn't say nothing
That side, was made for you and me
What needs to happen is the abolition of Israel and Palestine and the replacement of both with a south levant confederation that absolutely guarantees the equal rights of all citizens, and absolutely cracks down to the draconian nth degree against supremacism or separatism.
The Israelis have ruined the two state solution with their settlements in WB and in the Golan heights, so now they get to live with the consequences of democratic accountability instead of doing the rez shit America pulled where nobody felt like answering if indigenous folks were citizens too until they were demographically outnumbered enough to not retaliate against the politicians that screwed them.
Hamas are not freedom fighters, their the corrupt rez boss family that wittingly or not are the extension of the state's oppression over the people.
Also before anyone tries to cry ~~wolf~~ Anti-Semite, Israel's a major funder of stateside politicians that ferment antisemitic sentiments by tolerating it among their supporters. Why you may ask? Because American Jews rejected Zionism heavily since their state of being in the US served as a direct refutation of the idea that Jews needed their own ethnostate to ever be safe. Israeli Jews often openly contempt American Jews for being "woke" since even orthodox american Jews can be considered more liberal than their European and Israeli counterparts.
Israel wants to make America as hostile to Jews within their borders as possible because every family that flees to Tel Aviv over a swastika painted on the synagogue is another house they get to take from the Palestinians, and another "point" in the score in their vendetta against American Jews having rejected the initial call at Israel's establishment.
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