Ask Lemmy

Conscription is slavery if the people are not under imminent threat.

Conscription will always be used as weapon of the rich against the poor.

Conscription will never affect the children of the rich as much as it affects the poor.

Conscription does demystify military service and can teach useful skills.

Balancing these and other factors is always the trick.

I'd prefer a voluntary military service in a society that strongly encourages people to sign up for short service periods and doesn't lock them in for years as an anti-abuse measure, as a training program for a more popular citizen militia defense scheme.

Mandatory military service is the one case where accelerationism might possibly make sense. The fact that the military is made up of volunteers makes it harder to radicalize, and people are more willing to support war because, "The soldiers chose to be there." Go ahead, rip people away from the comfort of our homes, give us guns and training, and tell us we have to go risk our lives murdering brown people on the other side of the world in pointless conflicts in service of corporate interests - it's a bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them.

I oppose the draft because I wouldn't want to subject myself or others to that. But at the same time, I dare them to try it.

I read a novel written by a Vietnam era draftee.

There was a scene where two draftees were talking about ending the draft. One was against it because it would mean that all the people in the Army would be 'lifers' and lifers were the ones who were quickest to massacre civilians.

Hunter Thompson wrote about it once. His opinion was that when he served, a lot of upper class families sent their sons to the Army. That meant that they were meeting and working with all types of people.

I personal take is that it's a good thing, if there's a non-military equivalent, something like FDR's CCC

My response to the title: No

If I am being forced to, I will try to steer it towards any non-combant service like IT or (if necessary) social service.

I like the idea because it gives people job experience and forces them to interact with a broader cross-section of society, and might help some people who wouldn't otherwise do so consider it as a career, making the military more diverse. It also helps us be more prepared in the event of a major war. And obviously teenage conscripts should never be given combat deployments unless the homeland is literally being invaded, we've seen how traumatic that is even for people who self-select into it. I very much doubt it would do anything to decrease gun violence.

I will not befriend anyone who voluntarily served in the armed forces. Kind of like how I won't associate with anyone who works for a weapons company or as a cop. If military service was mandatory in the USA, I would renounce my citizenship and attempt to emigrate to a more sane country. People who choose violence as a career are not worth knowing.

I was one of the last people in Sweden to muster for conscription, I failed the first (hearing) test and was discharged.

This was just before conscription was ended, and about a decade later we have conscription again in Sweden.

There are two main advantages to universal conscription in my oppinion.

1. It gives the population unity, it is a unifying experience that you have in common with everyone, this creates a stronger society.
2. It gives the population a general understanding of guns and military action, this is useful in war as people are already familiar with the basic concepts of firearms handling and military tactics, ok, they won't be as good as professional soldiers, but they understand the concepts and that is a good foundation to build uppon.

I'm all for mandatory military training. Deployment is a separate issue.

I'm not for it but if mandatory service were a thing the population would be more hesitant to go to war knowing their flesh and blood might be included

Just imagine if instead of millitary service, it was compulsary public service that actually benefitted society. Nursing, construction/infrastructure, farming, teaching/childcare, etc.

Its astrounding how much money is pumped into the military industrial complex when it could be used to fund to many other programs for public good.

But that would be sOciALiSm.

My opinion is fuck no.

Compare Switzerland. Everyone after secondary school gets a year learning how to work as a team and practice interdependence.

Seems like it's working really well for them, as they have more guns per capita and almost zero mass shootings. Maybe that's the thing they're doing right?

Personally I don't have an issue with it as it's the only chance I and other poor kids had for entering college.

Morally? Fuck that shit. But, being a Finn and sharing a huge border with Russia, I see why it is a thing here and in a lot of countries.

As for America, your military seems to have enough people in it, and the US hasn't needed to actually defend itself for a looooong time.

We could use this, but after basic the year is spent in the country in communities doing public works. There also need to be zero loopholes, zero outs. People from all over the country from all walks of life and all classes live and work together. There was a brief benefit after WWII when men and women came home from service having worked and lived with people from all over the country. Farm boys with no education fought side by side with men who had been to ivy league schools. There was a net benefit to it.

In Switzerland we do mandatory military service or public service if you don’t do the military.

Both are ok, I only know the military but it’s a good experience. At first you don’t really want to do it but then you have a lot of fun, drink tons of cheap beers and learn to shoot (skill that you have to maintain for several years with mandatory shooting sessions).

Overall it’s more of a school of life rather than military school. I knew people in the medics and they did jack shit. I was in DCA and did jack shit. Most people I talk to did dumb stuff and most of us have good and funny memories from that time.

Is this a useful military force? Probably not, but we are Switzerland so who cares?

how if guns would be prevalent

hahahaha 'would' hahahhahhah. hilarious.

a huge contigent of domestic terrorism in the united states is ex-military white guys. also, a huge percentage of the homeless population are veterans.. it clearly leaves a psychological stain we then refuse to mop up. but yeah, lets push everyone through agencies with the worst sexual assault tallies in the country. awesome.

Fuck that noise.

Nobody should be forced to be a war machine. If you want, you can encourage it, give it appealing perks, but ultimately the decision should be down to the individual if they want to spend a chunk of their life on that.

Did mandatory service, and no, it shouldn't be a thing. It's not that you would be fighting in the frontline that it sucks (it is a possibility, but doubt it would happen any time soon), it's that you can't do much during that period that makes it annoying, and you're paid below min wage for it. It also imposes restrictions on you before you complete your service in case you try to avoid it. You also do it during the 20s, and that's just a waste of time.

It's ridiculous and should never be implemented.

In somw places it's more necessary than others. I don't think US would benefit from it, but here in Finland I'd rather keep it. I'd try to make civilian service more common choice than currently, though.

they were never deployed

You absolutely should not ever get deployed during mandatory service. That shit is not okay.

Do you consider the right to give up a basic human right? I do. Military service should never be mandatory. Also, the whole concept of nation-states is obsolete and harmful and humanity should try to move to stateless/borderless forms of society.

I'm fine with mandatory military service for a country that treats its military in a sane way and would never deploy conscripts outside of a last resort due to existential threat to the homeland. For most countries mandatory military service is just spending a few years learning to be a guardsman and learning a trade and serving your country and community in some substantive way. It should never involve getting anywhere near combat for anyone that didn't volunteer.

In the USA? Hell to the no, even before Trump.

Mandatory paid service with military as an OPTION, maybe. I'd like kids to get work right out of high school, have a year before college or whatever to make some money and do something different.

Literally always the military? No way. And certainly nothing that doesn't come with a paycheck. It just sucks now that the only way to get scholarships for college is right out of high school, something needs to interrupt that.

Mandatory training - Yes
Mandatory service - No

In the event of a real defensive war, where your nation is invaded with the intent of conquest or subjugation, you will not have a lack of volunteers. You will have a lack of trained people.

It takes a couple of months to train a new recruit. Having everyone ready to go will help tremendously during the initial stages of war.

On the other hand, a permanent mandatory service is 1. A waste of money, 2. Open for exploitation by corrupt governments

Professional army.

Support and train a reserve army of those willing. Citizens that could support the country and other citizens in the case of an invasion. Some countries do that. I like to think of those.

Only if otherwise necessary general service. E.g. active invasion you can't otherwise oppose, or you can't establish a minimum reserve.

Its slavery no matter how you slice it.

I am absolutely against it. You cannot force a person to give 100% of their effort. So if a person doesn’t wanna be there. They’re not going to put forward 100%. Wanna guess who picks up the rest.? Yeah that’s right their teammates. Now their teammates are pissed off because they’re doing extra work. That destroys morale . It doesn’t matter what type of job they have whether it’s infantry or office based or whatever the end result is the same.

It’s one of the reasons why when you enlist when you’re going through training, it really is not that hard to get out of training. During the Vietnam era you pretty much had to throw yourself down a flight of stairs and break your leg or something. Today, yeah it’s significantly easier to leave.

Because the mentality is, if you don’t wanna be there then just go home.

Special operations takes it to the next level they have (for example with the seals) a bell that you ring. Literally just walk up ring the bell and you’re done.

I have met a few vets, but not very many people who served who think military should be mandatory. The vast majority of people have served say : no service should not be mandatory. At least the ones that I’ve met.

I have met a fair number civilians who thinks military service should be mandatory though.