agamemnonymous

I once had a life, or rather, life had me. I was one among many, or at least I seemed to be.

This isn't partisan, you're fighting human nature here. Most people aren't that politically engaged. How many people were surprised Biden wasn't on the ballot?

Most people aren't following politics, they follow a vibe that they think about every few years and then go on not worrying about. Things have to get really bad before the average person thinks critically about their political representation beyond sports tribalism.

Every convert is +2, don't disincentivize that.

The bigger "Umm, actually" is that during spawning season, their outsides are that color.

Jack Horner in The Last Wish. Surprisingly good for a Shrek spin-off.

I have a question for men who ask this question:

I used to go to 1/2 price hospitality night a bar that served everything in pints, including the trippel they had. I generally finished every night there with a $3 pint of trippel.

That doesn't really conflict with what they said though. Someone whose desires overrule their values in the first place probably isn't going to be interested in suppressing their desires to push their values.

I draw a distinction between "complaining" and "lodging a complaint", based on the subject and recipient.

"Complaining" is when the recipient of the complaint is someone other than the subject (e.g. criticizing the actions of Democrats to online leftists). This doesn't really accomplish anything.

"Lodging a complaint" is when the recipient is the subject (e.g. criticizing the actions of Democrats via direct correspondence, or criticizing online leftists in a space inhabited predominantly by online leftists). This is effective communication and has the potential to actually prompt a response to the complaint.

SMCF is pretty clearly utilizing the second to bring attention to the problem of the first. And it is a huge problem. These leftist spaces are packed with ideological purists who favor moral superiority to effective action that requires strategy and compromise.

A great article with some excellent points:

Those who defend strategies, practices, and rituals in an identitarian way even if they don't lead to concrete impact are part of the problem, regardless of the seniority of the traditions and identities they embody. Losing for decades, martyring oneself for nothing, having moral superiority should not be a source of authority on how politics should be conducted, because it does not generate competence on how to achieve political victories.

[S]pontaneism must be fought in every way possible. First in its most obvious form, that is, the idea that if there is a widespread complaint in society, sooner or later this will lead to action which in turn will lead to change. Second, in its more insidious form, that is, the idea that understanding a political phenomenon, a problem, or an issue, is enough to achieve a solution.

Nothing is too “right-wing.” Nothing is “a thing for capitalists.” The end justifies the means. To be ineffective is a form of privilege. Being picky when choosing allies, being maximalists, and being purists is the luxury of those who engage in politics because of their beliefs rather than out of necessity.

You asked...

As a man, I'm only commenting on this here because it was explicitly framed as a question to men.

There are several reasons a man might feel this way.

Firstly, it's blatant sexist discrimination. I won't claim it's unjustified discrimination, but it is unambiguously sexist discrimination, and sexist discrimination feels unjust. I don't see any communities which specifically disallow women, and I'm quite sure such a policy would be immediately challenged. I doubt "your very insistence on asking is why the rule is the way it is" would be considered an acceptable justification.

Secondly, it feels like forced silence. Not only for mundane topics that a man may have thoughtful input for, but more importantly when men in general are targeted for the particular behaviors of individuals. Watching your half of the population be unilaterally lambasted, sometimes unfairly, and being deleted when you try to defend the bulk of your demographic feels oppressive. I'm sure women feel similarly when a group of men generalizes all women to be behaviourally identical to their toxic exes.

Then there's just good old fashioned, gender-neutral human nature. When someone tells you you can't do something, that just makes you want to do it more. Forbidden fruit and all that.

I'd wager the first is probably the most impactful though. It just feels unjust and hypocritical to be barred from a discussion based purely on sexist discrimination, especially when the reverse discrimination is so vigorously opposed. That kind of unilateral isolation is helping to drive a wedge between men and women, and I've watched it push normal young men to misogynist influencers (e.g. Andrew Tate) over time.

That said, I can understand the desire for such a space. I'm just trying to shed light on the mindset. Sure, there are plenty of misogynists that are trying to be disrespectful, but I think most men who would want to participate just feel the exclusion is hypocritical. Spot banning misogynists is obviously totally fine, but blanket deleting every man, regardless of content, feels like a blatant double standard.

I think dandelion nailed it in the other reply though: I don't make a habit of checking the community and its rules when I respond to a post, I'm just scrolling Everything and engaging with content and discussions I find interesting. I've commented here in the past for that exact reason, before noticing the community rules. I'll probably do so again unintentionally in the future if I don't notice the community. So it goes.

I hope mods keep this up since I'm sincerely trying to answer the question specifically directed at men, but I get it if not. shrugs This isn't a community for me, and personally I'm fine with that. Just might be worth at least considering why a non-toxic man might feel inclined to comment.

They're really only suitable for huge print farms and maker spaces, and even still they require a decent proportion of virgin material. Still, it's not totally dead end.