this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
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This question was inspired by a post on lemmy.zip about lowering the minimum age to purchase firearms in the US, and a lot of commeters brought up military service and training as a benchmark to normal civilians, and how if guns would be prevalent, then firearm training should be more common.

For reference, I live in the USA, where the minimum age to join the military is 18, but joining is, for the most part, optional. I also know some friends that have gone through the military, mostly for college benefits, and it has really messed them up. However, I have also met some friends from south korea, where I understand military service is mandatory before starting a more normal career. From what I've heard, military service was treated more as a trade school, because they were never deployed, in comparison to American troops.

I just wanted to know what the broader Lemmy community thought about mandatory military service is, especially from viewpoints outside the US.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

My response to the title: No

If I am being forced to, I will try to steer it towards any non-combant service like IT or (if necessary) social service.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago

I think mandatory public service would be good, with an option to choose non-combatant military roles

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 hours ago

I will not befriend anyone who voluntarily served in the armed forces. Kind of like how I won't associate with anyone who works for a weapons company or as a cop. If military service was mandatory in the USA, I would renounce my citizenship and attempt to emigrate to a more sane country. People who choose violence as a career are not worth knowing.

[–] ThrowawayPermanente 2 points 5 hours ago

I like the idea because it gives people job experience and forces them to interact with a broader cross-section of society, and might help some people who wouldn't otherwise do so consider it as a career, making the military more diverse. It also helps us be more prepared in the event of a major war. And obviously teenage conscripts should never be given combat deployments unless the homeland is literally being invaded, we've seen how traumatic that is even for people who self-select into it. I very much doubt it would do anything to decrease gun violence.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

I was one of the last people in Sweden to muster for conscription, I failed the first (hearing) test and was discharged.

This was just before conscription was ended, and about a decade later we have conscription again in Sweden.

There are two main advantages to universal conscription in my oppinion.

  1. It gives the population unity, it is a unifying experience that you have in common with everyone, this creates a stronger society.
  2. It gives the population a general understanding of guns and military action, this is useful in war as people are already familiar with the basic concepts of firearms handling and military tactics, ok, they won't be as good as professional soldiers, but they understand the concepts and that is a good foundation to build uppon.
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

So many people in the US join the military. I don't really see a unifying experience happen over the pond besides PTSD...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago

Fair point, my experience is from Sweden where we have had peace for 200 years or so

[–] agamemnonymous 9 points 16 hours ago

I'm all for mandatory military training. Deployment is a separate issue.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

I'm not for it but if mandatory service were a thing the population would be more hesitant to go to war knowing their flesh and blood might be included

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago

The elite pay the politic to not let their precious off-spring be conscripted.
And if they can't they will probably be send of to a foreign boarding school.

[–] [email protected] 92 points 1 day ago (11 children)

Just imagine if instead of millitary service, it was compulsary public service that actually benefitted society. Nursing, construction/infrastructure, farming, teaching/childcare, etc.

Its astrounding how much money is pumped into the military industrial complex when it could be used to fund to many other programs for public good.

But that would be sOciALiSm.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago

This is exactly what I would want a compulsory service to look like.

Fuck the military, let's build bridges and houses and schools, and cafeterias, and farms, and staff them. Roads and hospitals.

Nobody ever needed to make a fucking bomb

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

More hilarious when considering the US Military is an inherently socialist institution.

My sister and brother-in-law will go to the commissary, stay on base housing, get their paycheck from the US Govt., receive public Healthcare, and the GI Bill, then promptly go home and post on Facebook about how socialism bad.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago

Realizing the US Army is the most socialist institution I've ever encountered didn't happen till years after I was out, lol

You want school? Get it! You want food? Get it! You want clothes? You already fucking got em

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 day ago (2 children)

This exists in Austria. Males have to choose between 6 months of military or 9 months of public service. Interestingly enough the existence of the public service option has been a strong reason why people voted against removing the mandatory service some years ago.

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[–] earphone843 11 points 1 day ago

I think compulsory retail service would fix society.

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

Compare Switzerland. Everyone after secondary school gets a year learning how to work as a team and practice interdependence.

Seems like it's working really well for them, as they have more guns per capita and almost zero mass shootings. Maybe that's the thing they're doing right?

Personally I don't have an issue with it as it's the only chance I and other poor kids had for entering college.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 14 hours ago

Switzerland was an inspiration for much of the american laws I believe. The second amendment used to say "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.". The American got rid of the militia (the training) and kept the guns, now we have chaos.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 19 hours ago

I had the idea that mass shootings were more of a cultural phenomenon exacerbated by the media. I mean, we don't have them in my country either. And although some older people have gone through compulsory military training, it's been slowly rescinded for the younger generations so it makes me wonder if that has any effect on people's willingness to go on shooting sprees.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 22 hours ago

My opinion is fuck no.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Morally? Fuck that shit. But, being a Finn and sharing a huge border with Russia, I see why it is a thing here and in a lot of countries.

As for America, your military seems to have enough people in it, and the US hasn't needed to actually defend itself for a looooong time.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

The US military has actually been short on recruits for a long time now due to the obesity epidemic.

I mean we could stop maintaining an invasion force in basically every corner of the globe simultaneously, but we aren't filthy communists or whatever.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 hours ago

Huh, that's new to me. But, on the other hand, it isn't like America uses its military to defend itself, but rather just invade others.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 17 hours ago

We could use this, but after basic the year is spent in the country in communities doing public works. There also need to be zero loopholes, zero outs. People from all over the country from all walks of life and all classes live and work together. There was a brief benefit after WWII when men and women came home from service having worked and lived with people from all over the country. Farm boys with no education fought side by side with men who had been to ivy league schools. There was a net benefit to it.

[–] Object 2 points 16 hours ago

Did mandatory service, and no, it shouldn't be a thing. It's not that you would be fighting in the frontline that it sucks (it is a possibility, but doubt it would happen any time soon), it's that you can't do much during that period that makes it annoying, and you're paid below min wage for it. It also imposes restrictions on you before you complete your service in case you try to avoid it. You also do it during the 20s, and that's just a waste of time.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 19 hours ago

Fuck that noise.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 day ago

In Switzerland we do mandatory military service or public service if you don’t do the military.

Both are ok, I only know the military but it’s a good experience. At first you don’t really want to do it but then you have a lot of fun, drink tons of cheap beers and learn to shoot (skill that you have to maintain for several years with mandatory shooting sessions).

Overall it’s more of a school of life rather than military school. I knew people in the medics and they did jack shit. I was in DCA and did jack shit. Most people I talk to did dumb stuff and most of us have good and funny memories from that time.

Is this a useful military force? Probably not, but we are Switzerland so who cares?

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 day ago (1 children)

how if guns would be prevalent

hahahaha 'would' hahahhahhah. hilarious.

a huge contigent of domestic terrorism in the united states is ex-military white guys. also, a huge percentage of the homeless population are veterans.. it clearly leaves a psychological stain we then refuse to mop up. but yeah, lets push everyone through agencies with the worst sexual assault tallies in the country. awesome.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 day ago

Nobody should be forced to be a war machine. If you want, you can encourage it, give it appealing perks, but ultimately the decision should be down to the individual if they want to spend a chunk of their life on that.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

Do you consider the right to give up a basic human right? I do. Military service should never be mandatory. Also, the whole concept of nation-states is obsolete and harmful and humanity should try to move to stateless/borderless forms of society.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago

It's ridiculous and should never be implemented.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

In somw places it's more necessary than others. I don't think US would benefit from it, but here in Finland I'd rather keep it. I'd try to make civilian service more common choice than currently, though.

they were never deployed

You absolutely should not ever get deployed during mandatory service. That shit is not okay.

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 22 hours ago

Professional army.

Support and train a reserve army of those willing. Citizens that could support the country and other citizens in the case of an invasion. Some countries do that. I like to think of those.

Only if otherwise necessary general service. E.g. active invasion you can't otherwise oppose, or you can't establish a minimum reserve.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm fine with mandatory military service for a country that treats its military in a sane way and would never deploy conscripts outside of a last resort due to existential threat to the homeland. For most countries mandatory military service is just spending a few years learning to be a guardsman and learning a trade and serving your country and community in some substantive way. It should never involve getting anywhere near combat for anyone that didn't volunteer.

In the USA? Hell to the no, even before Trump.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Mandatory paid service with military as an OPTION, maybe. I'd like kids to get work right out of high school, have a year before college or whatever to make some money and do something different.

Literally always the military? No way. And certainly nothing that doesn't come with a paycheck. It just sucks now that the only way to get scholarships for college is right out of high school, something needs to interrupt that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

A mandatory year in food service or retail could fix one of the main core issues we have here in the US, which is lack of empathy and respect for others. It is the genesis of so many of our problems.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 18 hours ago

I feel like most kids get this in high school, 3/4 of mine did anyway. Most people I know spent at least some time working in retail and/or restaurant.

And yes I agree that a lack of empathy and excess of greed is THE problem facing us.

What bothers me more is hospitality work is satisfying as fuck - I love making people comfortable and happy, that commitment to excellence - it's just so hard to make a good living at it.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Mandatory social work sounds great. I'd love to spend a year working in the forest service, or even on city cleanup. Paid of course. But it builds love for your neighbors and country to help your community.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Its slavery no matter how you slice it.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Mandatory training - Yes
Mandatory service - No

In the event of a real defensive war, where your nation is invaded with the intent of conquest or subjugation, you will not have a lack of volunteers. You will have a lack of trained people.

It takes a couple of months to train a new recruit. Having everyone ready to go will help tremendously during the initial stages of war.

On the other hand, a permanent mandatory service is 1. A waste of money, 2. Open for exploitation by corrupt governments

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 day ago

I am absolutely against it. You cannot force a person to give 100% of their effort. So if a person doesn’t wanna be there. They’re not going to put forward 100%. Wanna guess who picks up the rest.? Yeah that’s right their teammates. Now their teammates are pissed off because they’re doing extra work. That destroys morale . It doesn’t matter what type of job they have whether it’s infantry or office based or whatever the end result is the same.

It’s one of the reasons why when you enlist when you’re going through training, it really is not that hard to get out of training. During the Vietnam era you pretty much had to throw yourself down a flight of stairs and break your leg or something. Today, yeah it’s significantly easier to leave.

Because the mentality is, if you don’t wanna be there then just go home.

Special operations takes it to the next level they have (for example with the seals) a bell that you ring. Literally just walk up ring the bell and you’re done.

I have met a few vets, but not very many people who served who think military should be mandatory. The vast majority of people have served say : no service should not be mandatory. At least the ones that I’ve met.

I have met a fair number civilians who thinks military service should be mandatory though.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I’d prefer it be more of a mandatory civil service than actual military. If that includes basic weapons training that’s ok with me.

Singapore does this too and you see them everywhere, with their rifle (ammo less).

I don’t think it would have any impact on gun violence though.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 22 hours ago

I think military service in general is kind of important since you can actually get attacked (thanks to russia for making my point).

We had mandatory military service for men in germany and it was canceled. I sure hope it stays that way bc it isnt efficient to make kids who have better options waste their time on something they dont actually want to do. We have a professional military for that. AND if we had it, women of course must go too.

But besides that especially in countries known for their warcrimes and batshit crazy politics, like the US, I think its clear that mandatory military training would be a bad idea.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I am for it only because it helps avoid politicization of the armed forces. When the military self-selects recruits, you risk the organization biasing towards people with a particular worldview. It intrinsicially also leads to a military comprised of people who love the idea of being a "military person".

It's much more reassuring knowing your armed forces, the people with the big guns, are your neighbors, rather than strangers with a particular ideology or biased loyalties.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 day ago

It's much more reassuring knowing your armed forces, the people with the big guns, are your neighbors, rather than strangers with a particular ideology or biased loyalties.

How about compulsory national guard service?

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