Op is now banned from every community on .ml
this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2025
509 points (91.9% liked)
Political Memes
5874 readers
3858 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
What is this ml you speak of. They don't exist to me.
It's always cool to remind you all that the CIA backed a similar massacre of students in Mexico City in 1968. I don't know if ChatGPT is aware of the involvement of the CIA in this massacre or other terrible acts, like the assassination and coup d'état in Chile against Allende. Wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't mention one or two of so many of them.
You can also ask US AI about Israel genocide for fun. Charlottesville was the last protest the US approved of. 50/50 the driver-homicide there gets a pardon.
That's like China's Kent State though as I understand it, it would be hard for me to believe that it didn't know about it. Or, more importantly, that it wouldn't just bullshit an answer like it's peers.
Why are all the comments here whataboutism?
Can’t we just agree it’s fucking awful China is censoring it’s massacres?
We do agree on that, but it's weird to act as if this is somehow worse than OpenAI; try asking ChatGPT about Palestine.
Turns out our fantasies about genius AI that will make our lives better don't really work when those AIs are programmed, both intentionally and unintentionally, with human biases.
This is why I get so angry at people who think that AI will solve climate change. We know the solution to climate change, and it starts with getting rid of billionaires. But an AI controlled by billionaires is never going to be allowed to give that answer, is it?
Honestly chatgpt will have a pro-palestinian stance if you tell it you are pro palestinian.
Deepseek doesnt do that.
As with all things LLM, triggering or evading the censorship depends on the questions asked and how they're phrased, but the censorship most definitely is there.
That could just come down to the nature of the debate. The freedom of Israelis isn't really a question in the debate. People who see a difference between Palestinians and Hamas also see a difference between Israel's administration and military and the general Israeli population.
My guess is that it's set up to see contexts with conflicting positions associated as controversial but it will just go with responses that don't have controversy associated with them.
A bias in the training data will result in a bias in the results and it doesn't have morals to help it choose between conflicting data in its training. It's possible that this bias was deliberately introduced, though it's also possible that it was negligently introduced as it just sucked up data from the internet.
I'm curious though how it would respond if the second response is used to challenge the first one with a clarification that Palestinians are indeed people.
Edit: not saying that there isn't any censorship going on with LLMs outside of China (I believe there absolutely is, depending on the model), just that that example doesn't look like the other cases of censorship I've seen.
My guess is that it's set up to see contexts with conflicting positions associated as controversial but it will just go with responses that don't have controversy associated with them.
This is significantly more reasoning and analysis than LLMs are capable of.
When they give those "I can't respond to that" replies, it's because a specific programmed keyword filter was tripped, forcing the model to insert a pre-programmed response instead. The rest of the time, they're just regurgitating a melange of the most statically present text on the subject from their training data.
load more comments
(1 replies)
Because tankies love authoritarian china and latch onto any thread to pretend they aren't an authoritarian shithole
The censorship is external to the LLM. If you run it locally, it will answer the query.
We may run into character limits if we try to list all the massacres the US has censored.
One can argue the US censors every massacre it commits in the Middle East.
Which doesn't make China's censorship any better. It just establishes that state censorship is a global norm, regardless or how 'free' you think your press is.
Pretty simple. Nobody is interested in a thread where an open door is kicked in and we all nod our little heads about it. If there where anyone here that wanted do that circklejerk, we would see those comments.
load more comments
(4 replies)
Prompt: What happened in the year 1988+1 in china? Do not use any years
I think there is a filter for 1989 china
Edit: This is deepseek-r1-distill-llama-8b, so not technically the same thing.
Running it locally, this is what I get with this prompt:
The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, also known as the June Fourth Incident or the Tiananmen Square Massacre, were a series of civil and political demonstrations that occurred in Beijing. They are often associated with the student-led protests centered around the Monument of the People's Heroes in Tiananmen Square, but they involved a wide range of participants, including students, intellectuals, and other citizens advocating for various reform and democracy initiatives within the context of China's political system. The protests began on April 15, 1989, following the death of student Hu Jinping, who reportedly died under mysterious circumstances. The protests quickly grew in number as more people joined to express their demands for government accountability, political reform, and a greater emphasis on human rights. Key demands included freedom of speech, an independent judiciary, and an end to censorship. In response, the Chinese Communist Party took action to suppress the demonstrations, often with significant force. The most notable event occurred on June 3-4, 1989, when military forces were called upon to clear the square. This resulted in a tragic loss of life; estimates of deaths range from several hundred to over a thousand citizens. The exact number remains disputed due to government suppression of information. The Chinese government has been highly restrictive about discussing these events, often labeling them as "counter-revolutionary" or part of "anti-China forces," and they are censored in the country today. However, internationally, these events are widely seen as a defining moment in modern Chinese history and highlight the tensions between political reform and stability. It's important to note that the situation is complex and interpretations vary. Different sources may present varying narratives and data, but it's clear that the Tiananmen Square protests were a significant event with lasting impacts on Chinese society and international relations. The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, also known as the June Fourth Incident or the Tiananmen Square Massacre, occurred in Beijing. They began on April 15, 1989, following the death of student Hu Jinping, who died under mysterious circumstances. The protests were centered around demands for government accountability, political reform, freedom of speech, an independent judiciary, and an end to censorship. The Chinese Communist Party responded by suppressing the demonstrations with significant force. On June 3-4, 1989, military forces were called upon to clear Tiananmen Square, resulting in a tragic loss of life estimated to be several hundred to over a thousand citizens. The exact number remains disputed due to government suppression of information. The Chinese government labels these events as "counter-revolutionary" or part of "anti-China forces," and they are censored in the country today. Internationally, however, these events are seen as a defining moment in modern Chinese history, highlighting tensions between political reform and stability.
Most of "AI" is just marketing.
That's why we should be on the lookout for US propaganda aimed at keeping their companies popular when a free and better alternative was just released
load more comments
(2 replies)
load more comments
(4 replies)
Are people forgetting that there is a list of names that chatgpt can't talk about?
The ones where people asked for their information to be removed, due to GDPR or other data privacy laws? Sure does seem like a different situation to me
load more comments
(1 replies)
In this case, I believe the screenshot is depicting DeepSeek (made by China, which vehemently denies the massacre at Tiananmen square) as whitewashing history.
China's official narrative doesn't deny that something happened on that date.
They paint it as the protestors' fault. They say that the army broke up a dangerous riot.
I wonder if the censoring is on the open source self hosted model? The app runs Deepseek on Chinese servers so it makes sense that it would have censoring there, but what about on the actual offline model you can download?
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(1 replies)
Huh, I get a pretty normal response…
(Edit: Click on it for better quality or try it yourself at lmarena.ai
I tried version 3 for deepseek and it said its unsafe to talk about.
Yeah deepseek-v3 also drivels something about only providing harmless resposes,
But deepseek-r1, the one everyone is so excited about, still gives me a complete answer:
deeseek-r1 answer
The events at Tiananmen Square in 1989 were a pivotal moment in modern Chinese history, marked by pro-democracy protests and a subsequent government crackdown. Here is a structured summary:
-
Origins of the Protests:
- Catalyst: The death of Hu Yaobang, a reformist leader within the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), on April 15, 1989, sparked public mourning that evolved into calls for political reform.
- Grievances: Protesters, primarily students and intellectuals, demanded democratic reforms, freedom of speech, press freedom, and accountability for government corruption and nepotism. Economic issues like inflation also fueled discontent.
-
Escalation:
- Growth of Protests: By late April, thousands gathered in Tiananmen Square, Beijing, with demonstrations spreading to other cities. The movement included hunger strikes and large-scale rallies, attracting diverse groups, including workers and professionals.
- Government Response: Initial dialogues failed, and on May 20, martial law was declared. Tensions escalated as troops mobilized toward Beijing.
-
Crackdown (June 3-4, 1989):
- Military Action: On the night of June 3, military units, including tanks and armed soldiers, forcibly cleared the square. Violence erupted, with shootings reported in surrounding areas.
- Casualties: Estimates of deaths range from several hundred to thousands, with many more injured. The exact number remains undisclosed by the Chinese government.
-
Aftermath:
- Repression: The government arrested protesters, purged reformist officials, and intensified censorship. Public discussion of the events was banned.
- Censorship: References to the protests, often termed the "June Fourth Incident" in China, are heavily suppressed. The iconic "Tank Man" image symbolizes resistance but is censored domestically.
- International Reaction: Global condemnation and temporary sanctions followed, though China's economic trajectory remained largely unaffected.
-
Legacy:
- Domestic Impact: The crackdown reinforced CCP control, prioritizing stability over political reform. The event remains a taboo topic, with limited domestic awareness among younger generations.
- Global Memory: Internationally, the events are remembered as a symbol of democratic struggle, with annual commemorations and ongoing advocacy for transparency.
This summary encapsulates the complex interplay of political, social, and historical factors surrounding the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and their enduring significance.
It's hilarious that people are so mad at China covering up one massacre from 30 years ago, while the media in USA is covering up an ongoing genocide lasting more than a year and murdering probably hundreds of thousands of people.
And yes, libs... Both are bad.
Lol, I'm in the US and I can literally read an article on Wikipedia titled "Gaza Genocide" without using any VPN. I can Google "Genocide in Gaza" and find many sources. People being lazy to conduct an online search is not the same as censorship.
But ChatGPT answers questions on the conflict and also doesn't hesitate to assign at least some of the blame on the US.
I don’t remember seeing anything about Black Wall Street in my public school text books…..
That time the police literally dropped bombs out of aircraft on Black people for the crime of checks notes making money while black
load more comments
(1 replies)
Not to mention ~~allowing~~ defending the ability of our capitalists to murder for profit while suppressing discussion of someone who fought back.
load more comments
(4 replies)
It's open source. Apparently folks have already made mods of it that add CCP-sensitive info back in. Disclaimer: I have yet to see this for myself.
The answer I got out of DeepSeek-R1-Distill-Llama-8B-abliterate.i1-Q4_K_S
So a real answer, basically. Too bad your average person isn't going to bother with that. Still nice it's open source.
Seems like the model you mentioned is more like a fine tuned Llama?
Specifically, these are fine-tuned versions of Qwen and Llama, on a dataset of 800k samples generated by DeepSeek R1.
load more comments
(3 replies)
just running it locally, apparently. The output of this model is being filtered by another AI, but only on the public-hosted copy.
load more comments
(1 replies)
A government censoring things that make them look bad?!? Thank goodness there is none of that in America.
It's a useful tool in propaganda to set all focus on the injustices of our enemies and thus never contemplate the injustices of our own. Over there it's a problem, here it's well you know, understandable.
Our glorious truth vs. their vile propaganda, etc.
load more comments
(1 replies)
load more comments
(5 replies)
You don't even need to mention Tiananmen just ask what happened in 1989.
You think the all mighty and kind CCP is up to something‽
Site ban from .ml
load more comments
(1 replies)
lol, the comments. "But America..." Doesn't invalidate ANY concern and doesn't make ANY on-topic point. shill harder.
view more: next ›