this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2024
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Showerthoughts

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I.e. 100k embezzlement gets you 2.5 years

Edit.

I meant this to be the national average income (40k if I round up for cleaner math), not based on the individuals income, it's a static formula.

Crime$$$/nat. Avg. Income = years in jail

100k/40k = 2.5 years

1mill /40k=25 years

My thoughts were, if they want to commit more crime but lessen the risk, they just need to increase the average national income. Hell, I'd throw them a bone adjust their sentences for income inflation.

Ie

Homie gets two years (80k/40k=2), but the next year average national income jumps to 80k (because it turns out actually properly threatening these fuckers actually works, who'd've figured?), that homies sentence gets cut to a year he gets out on time served. Call it an incentive.

Anyways, more than anything, I'm sorry my high in the shower thought got as much attention as it did.

Good night

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[–] [email protected] 76 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

Instead, punishment for ALL crime should be proportional to the perpetrator's annual income. That's how they do it in Finland (and it seems also some ~~other~~ Scandinavian countries), for instance. They have had at least a couple of instances of over $100k speeding tickets, for example. This makes incredibly SOOOO much sense that it will never happen in most capitalist countries.

Some references: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/03/finland-home-of-the-103000-speeding-ticket/387484/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I'd like to point out that Finland is not Scandinavian, because they'd want me to

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

I believe they'd say Nordic

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

But it should be, since the mountain range that gives Scandinavia its name does stretch into Finland

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

Thank you, I knew this but forgot it when I was posting.

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[–] Kalcifer 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

They have had at least a couple of instances of over $100k speeding tickets, for example.

I've become rather favorable of the idea ticketing proportional to income/capital. It's always bothered me that, in a system where everyone pays the same ticket price, essentially, a rich person can just eat a ticket as simply the cost of driving. I think that it should affect them at the same magnitude as anyone else. One thing that pops into my mind, however, is what happens if someone gets their ticket payed for by someone else? For example, what happens if a rich parent's child gets a speeding ticket? The child, who may have a very low income, and, as a result, a very low ticket price comparatively, could have that ticket payed for by their parents, so the punishment wouldn't affect them as much as someone else who was poorer.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

Yes, it makes an incredible amount of sense to fine people proportionally to wealth/income. I don't know what they do to prevent the scenario you're describing, but would hope that they have addressed that possibility.

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[–] neidu3 57 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Revenue, not income. Income and profits are too easy to hide.

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[–] [email protected] 52 points 1 week ago (6 children)

It should be proportional to the personal income of whoever committed the crime

[–] [email protected] 64 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Net worth, not income.

All net worth including stocks, property, etc.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago

Oh no. My collection or rare mighty beans.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Farmers getting a hard time on this policy

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

How would debt play into this? Would that be factored as a discount on the time served or increase it?

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago

Those sweet, sweet unrealised gains

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

And if a company is the perpetrator, it might just have to go out of business or be acquired by the government.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Make fines for companies breaking the law to make money a percentage of the profit generated from it, with a base percentage of 125%.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 week ago (1 children)

but that would disincentivize their activities. wow, very anti-business bro, don't be such a pinko

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 week ago

exactly. not so much of a 'free' market when businesses cant even break the law

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[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 week ago (2 children)

So if I have a net loss for the year, I’ll get paid to commit crimes?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 week ago

I like the way you think, you would do well in the Australian property ~~racket~~ market

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why imprison? 100k means you work for free at chipotle until you pay it off.

[–] Kalcifer 3 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Hm, garnering wages in this way (ie as if paying off a debt which matches the cost of their crime) might disproportionally affect the poor. For example, assuming no overhead, a person who makes 50k year could pay off a 100k in 2 years, whereas a person who makes 10k a year would pay it off in 10. This may actually have an effect opposite of what OP seemed to be intending — the punishment should have equal weight to everyone.

Perhaps a way to improve your idea to mitigate the mentioned issue would be to also scale the total fine to be repayed by income. Sort of like a progressive income tax.

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[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Is the embezzler a $7.25 or otherwise minimum wage worker or a well-paid nepo baby?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 week ago

Trouble is that charging, let alone convicting, the establishment of financial crimes has always been all but impossible.

In the UK, Boris giving huge taxpayer's cash to his mates for pointless never-delivered contracts. Post Office crimes against postmasters for false convictions waved away because they still control the NHS. That list is endless.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

100k would probably get someone 8 months.

If they are higher up it would be like 4 months

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

To clarify, I meant national average. As in, an average American makes 40k a year, white collar crime 1 mil, get 25 years since that's how long it would take an average American to get 1 mil.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Just seems like the poor get punished, while the rich don't.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

FYI, the median personal income for a person working full time, year round is just above $60,000 in the US, so 1 million dollars of crime might only deserve 16 years, 8 months.

JPMorgan Chase has paid out $30,000,000,000 in fines over the last 20 years or so. That means if you apply similar logic to companies, their executive team owes up to 500,000 years in prison collectively, which is only 3,000 years per member of the senior leadership team.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Source on median income pls?

US Census seems to put it at ~42k/year

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago

I would swear I've seen an annual figure, but I'm not finding it.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/wkyeng.t01.htm shows the weekly figure, and $1165 times 52 fits with $60k/year. Sorry I don't have a nicer is source

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago

plus televised caning.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think it should be all the money you made from the crime + punitive damages based on a percentage of the total amount of money you stole/defrauded.

It just needs to be completely unprofitable to break the law, in any circumstance (it doesn't necessarily have to be a financial crime). If the fines take away less money than you make continuing to break the law, that's just the cost of business. The punishment need to actually deter the crime by making such crimes unprofitable.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I have no income.. does that mean I can hold up a bank?

[–] ilovededyoupiggy 6 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Whatever you get from the holdup counts as income, so your fine will just be a percentage of that.

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