Video game news oriented community. No NanoUFO is not a bot :)
Posts.
Comments.
My goal is just to have a community where people can go and see what new game news is out for the day and comment on it.
Other communities:
Half Life Alyx is like if we got Super Mario 64, and then four years later the games influenced by it just didn't come.
I think that the biggest problem is the lack of investment and willingness to take on risk. Every company just seems to want a quick cash grab "killer app" but doesn't want to sink in the years of development of practical things that aren't as flashy but solve real-world problems. Because that's hard and isn't likely to make the line go up every quarter.
It's mostly the price. If you have 500 or even 1000 to invest to play games, first that puts you squarely in the top 1% worldwide but more importantly a VR headset is the worst choice in terms of breadth of games you can play. So the first choice will always be a PC or a console which leave the VR headset for the people who actually have 2k+ to spend for gaming and actually want one. A tiny tiny minority.
If you had on top of it that you still have a 50/50 chance of getting nausea each time you play and that it's a pain in the ass (or an additional expense) if you wear glasses, and the space requirement. It's not a surprise if the market is stalled.
As for useful implementation, my cousin is an orthopedic surgeon and they use VR headset and 3D x-ray scanner, 3d printers and a whole bunch of sci-fi stuff to prep for operation, but they are not using a meta quest2, we're talking 50k headset and million dollar equipment. None of that does anything to the gaming market.
My though is that the tech need to get a couple of order of magnitude better and be usable as a day to day computer for work. When I can code in one 10 hours a day without fucking up my eyes, vomiting myself, sweating like a pig and getting neck strain it will have the possibility to take over the computer market, until then, it's a gimmick.
Anybody that says vr is a gimmick haven't tried a vr racing rig. Not only the fun factor but I'm definitely a better driver now for it.
I imagine the insane price to entry is a big thing.
I had some disposable cash so I went with the index, I love it don't get me wrong but, 1k is super fucking steep for an enjoyable system, and that's ontop of the requirement they do it right when they make a game, many of them take vr as a minority and you can tell when a game puts it on the side burner
Also a lot of people are lazy. VR requires you to move more than playing flat games. Also it requires a decent PC which is an added cost. As you said - when it works (Payday 2, Alyx) there is nothing better. When it doesn't, you can end up with physical symptoms.
I've enjoyed my VR but rarely. When I game, I'm usually doing it to relax. Getting everything up and running, clearing space, etc so I can wear a device that makes my face sweat while I thrash about isn't relaxing.
VR is the gaming equivalent of going to a fancy restaurant with a formal dress code. It's nice once in a while, but most of the time I'd rather just make a sandwich and stay in.
Yup, $1k for a decent headset, $1k for a decent GPU, and you also need space to play. It's a pretty big barrier to entry before you even get into the limited selection of games.
Even though Facebook is a terrible inhumane corporation, they have the best product because it is lightweight, can be used without any base station and can be used without a pc-link.
The fact that a VR set requires at minimum a 5x5 feets space with a computer within the vicinity is definitely hurting the VR market.
So I just hope that we get something akin to the Quest but without the evil corporation bit.
When I played Elite Dangerous with a VR headset, man was it magical. But I won't dedicate a small room and a PC just for that experience.
I have an Index also, one thing I find frustrating is that because the Quest has such a dominant marketshare and packages games differently, some smaller VR games and experiences I see seem to be only available as an apk file for Quest sideloading and there is no straightforward way for me to play them.
The main reason I don't use it more though is I never got past the physical discomfort, I still feel nausea playing most games for more than a few minutes, and headaches from the pressure on my scalp/face if going longer than that, ie. trying to watch a movie with the headset. So that basically means I'm not going to just spend a lot of time passively chilling out in VR, it has to be some specific thing I want to do that feels worth it to push through the discomfort involved and can be gotten through relatively quickly. Mostly that ends up being just Beat Saber.
You don't need anything like that much for a Quest 2/3. Quest 2 is obviously a bit outdated, but I still have fun with mine.
I couldn't use the quest, it seemed to be on par with the psvr in terms of frames which gave me massive motion sickness
Fair enough. Personally I find the motion sickness mostly down to the game rather than headset, I didn't know that the frame rate had an effect!
My flight sim would say otherwise if it had a mouth. Also if it had a mouth..... Uhhhhh.... It might be another kind of sim.....
people choose consoles over pcs for comfort
people choose pc for its capabilities (and for some, a different kind of comfort)
people choose vr for the experience only - and it can get old quite quickly because the market is too small - not enough 'content'
It's only that way because developers don't seem to be, you know... Developing shit for it.
Like, I love a lot of what's available and the tech itself is great; but there is no killer app. There is next to nothing but novelty bullshit being made. Even if Meta wasn't the one with the cheapest headset, people wouldn't necessarily be buying into VR because there's not really much to do with it yet.
One Half-Life game, a chatroom, and a bitching rythym game isn't enough.
It’s killer app to me is sim racing but it requires too much additional investment
What, like a wheel and some pedals? Or would you go full-on actual car stuff? I met a guy once who turned the entire back half of his trailer into a plane cockpit for his flight sims. Had actual instruments and switches and stuff. I'm sure with what it had to cost, he could have just bought a real plane. lol
The cheapest plane I'd feel comfortable flying my family around in goes for about $100k, and you'd better be able to pay ~$5k a year on average for upkeep.
Meanwhile an instrument six pack is cheap buying it off someone that's upgrading their cockpit.
Well really that’s where I’d say it’s up to you, the quasi real cockpit would not be worth it but most “entry level” sit down rigs and a wheel cost about $4-500 all in
I got a quest 2 a few years back, and it blew my mind. We ended up getting my wife her own so we could play together. Now, my daughter plays a lot of gorilla tag, but other than that, they collect dust.
For me, the biggest thing that prevents me from using it more, is the isolation. You need to find an empty space and remove yourself completely from the world.
On my phone or Xbox, I still know what's going on around me, and I can hop in, play for a bit, and still know what's going on in my house. I can walk away for a moment and get back to what I was doing. In VR, it feels like more of an investment. If I'm not sure that I have plenty of time to disengage from reality, I'm not going to bother putting on the headset.
Also, I'm a sweater, and a soggy, foggy headset is just eww.
Bingo. I spent a few hours playing some zombie killer game/demo with the HTC Vive back in like 2017, and while it was actually a lot of fun, it was super disorienting and I definitely knocked some stuff off my shelves by trying to stand in the middle of the room by myself. Someone also walked in without me hearing, and they got a hearty elbow to the face when I swung around to shoot a zombie behind me.
And ugh the sweat is real. After a few minutes the headset fogged up and started slipping off my face, and since that particular headset had porous foam all over it, the sweat soaked in and became gross immediately. That was the last time I used VR.
I think it would take off if Facebook wasn't involved
I’m not going to lie: I would own a Quest 3 already if it didn’t have Meta all over it.
Same. I want to use it as a huge desktop display at work for those days when I need like 40 things visible at once
Saaame and I have an index and a WMR kit hahaha. But in my house, no Facebook hardware or code on any machines.
..I miss beat saber. I’ve been too lazy lately but I have all the parts I need for a quarantined beat saber computer.
That's how I feel about it. I don't know if I would buy one but independence from Facebook is a prerequisite. Can these even be used without logging in?
This is why there hasn't been a refresh on the Valve Index: not enough interest, not enough games. Half Life Alyx is still one of the few major games with any depth to them in the market, and you can't access it easily outside of the Steam ecosystem. In other words, it's unavailable for a lot of VR headsets. They aren't going to dump more resources into more VR games if people aren't buying the headsets or the games.
Steam Deck on the other hand? Huuuuuuge market, people want that shit.
Stand alone headsets can play PCVR games too, especially steam games, that is the most accessible market for PCVR on standalone. Most do it wirelessly, which likely isn't as bad as you are thinking, but some also still do it with wired and some even with uncompressed video over wire. But honestly, as the resolution and bitrate keep going up, the difference between raw and compressed gets harder and harder to spot. At this point, you can only really tell in side by side comparisons of still frames which feed is compressed.
The main remaining problem of compressed streams is the total latency added, most importantly the decompressing time, since it's done on the headsets mobile hardware. And the networking time. Though a dedicated network device, either a router or a bespoke VR streaming tool can get that down to 5ms or less now. My streams total latency to my wireless headset is about 30ms now. I wouldn't be able to professionally compete in a frame counting fighter game... but that is about the only type of game where that level of latency is too much. Heck, people of my generation grew up through a point in time where TV screen latency was over 100ms... And while I will admit that there is still a benefit to sub 14ms latency, it's not as big of a difference as it used to be. And that is only when I stream PCVR stuff, it's still under that for stand alone content. Which also is not as bad as you likely think it is.
I have a total of about 250 VR games currently, and I only buy about 10% of the ones I want to buy. But I have also been in VR for 10 years now. About 150 of my games are standalone and about 100 PCVR. With about 30 of them being titles that gave both versions for the price of one. There is no shortage of games, I could not possibly play even all of just the good ones.
A VR headset is basically a console now, except one you can stream your PC to if you want. Even just for flat games too, I have a Virtual 4k 120hz monitor in my VR headset because in real life my 4k screen is an older TV that can only do 60 hz pc input or a very janky 120hz for 1080p. The nice thing about streaming to a VR headset instead of some hand held device, other than 4k 120fps, is that I don't have to look at my hands or hold my hands up to my eyes to play. My neck feels so much better than it did when Phone, Switch, and Steamdeck were the best way to game away from a computer.
My headset is comfortable, I can, and unfortunately often do, wear it for 16 hours a day. I have a single third party mod for it that was less than 100 dollars to convert it from a 2 hour headset, to an infinity headset. There are multiple options, but I went with BoBoVR, dumb name, but quality product.
But my headset has basically replaced my computer monitor, I haven't used my computer in person in like 2 years now. When I want to play a game on my computer, I just stay in my recliner, put my headset on and open Virtual Desktop, the same software I use to stream PCVR when I'm in the mood to be in the game instead.
There is basically no downside anymore, they aren't even expensive. While a Quest 3 is notably better, the lower end 3s is a totally viable headset at 300USD, notably cheaper than most consoles. Just do yourself a favor, if a Quest 3 seems too expensive, do not try it on. Stay with 3s and don't see how much greener the grass is for a little bit more, it's very easy to talk your way up to a real Quest 3.
Also, Steam deck has sold about 5 million units extrapolating from last known good data, Quest 2 sold over 20 million, Quest 3 is seemingly up to 10-15 million so far judging from old sales data for pacing and some recently reported hardware ratios from game devs, and still has about 4-5 more years left of active sales.
So if the Steam deck is a "huge market", then I don't know what you would call the stand alone VR market now. Considering that is just one brand of standalone headset. It's the market leader, sure, but there are other brands that do at least as well as the steam deck. Distant second as that may make them, seems like it's still relevant to include given the context.
True, but there are 2 sides to this: the majority won’t buy VR, unless there are enough games to play.
Studios should be actually investing and taking a risk, maybe it works out and becomes a big market, maybe not. If they keep going the current path, VR will forever remain an expensive niche gimmick. Which they seem to okay with.
I hate to say this, but I played through Half-Life: Alyx and my response was to the effect of “…That’s it?”
It performed badly, gameplay was largely based around very uncreative shooting (take out gun, shoot combine 10 times around corner, eject magazine, reach back, put magazine into gun, pull slide, shoot around corner 4 more times, repeat) and there were only 3 guns. Even the gravity gloves weren’t used in combat.
I was even more wowed by the few VR combat games that made some innovations or had features in the level to outsmart enemies.
I personally don't feel like spending 700 or how many euros to play beat saber on my ps5.
Other games that might be awesome in this is ones were you don't need to move around but benefit from being able to look around, so flight sims, driving sims, but there the chair setups are better imo.
Can't really think of much else, that's why VR is on the decline, really limited number of fun games to be had, or it would require some paradigm shift, like a strategy game but you are playing on the inside of a globe, but then that game would have to survive on being a VR exclusive.
A VR mech game could be so baller. Also a remake of Black and White would work well. But generally yeah it's just not a great medium for most games and while we have a lot of promising hardware we're struggling to find ways to use it intuitively
I think after the bubble breaks it does down a bit well see some groups take their time to build really functional stuff. We don't have good standards on how to interact in VR and it shows. We don't have enough data on how to make people less motion sick. Basically the hardware is there but the software isn't and that'll take more time than we've been giving it, imo
Realistically though I think the fundamental limits on how you can interact in VR means while there may be a strong niche market, I don't expect it to be a mainstream thing. Even if the prices drop a lot and the headsets get smaller there's still a lot working against them
Armored Core could have been a baller VR game
VR always seemed like a gimmick to me. I ended up with a wii instead of a PS3 or 360 as a teenager and it made me bitter and resolved to avoid anything like motion controls or gimmicks in future purchases.
Not that the wii was a bad console but I ended up playing the virtual console and gamecube backwards compatibility more than anything else.
I enjoyed my Wii well enough, but my PS3 got the most play out of the three.
VR is absolutely incredible though. It’s hella expensive for a nice kit, but my mind is blown every time I strap into my Index.
Wearing a headset isn't appealing to me. I'd rather get a curved screen or more screens to be more immersed.
I mean the hype has died down but I think it's rather that VR is too expensive right now. I want VR but I don't want it $500 much to get a novelty item.
I think using it as a big ass screen would be nice and I really want to Serious Sam and Subnautica on VR. The immersion is really good for VR and I've liked it a lot every time I've played it.
Still, you need a decent space in the living room. A good graphics card for the frame rate and the expensive headset and motion trackers to get the full experience. That's a lot to ask for with the current economy.
There's just too many edge cases in VR for it to be a real platform. Movement is hard, there needs to be a lot of space around a person, form factors aren't great for the hardware, there's more graphical requirements, etc.
It'd legitimately be easier to fit an arcade cabinet in my house than space for proper VR play.
I use it for sim racing sometimes and it's amazing to feel like I'm in an F1 car or something. Until I get nauseous after 15 minutes or something. It's also a bit of a hassle to set up. That being said, maybe it would be cooler if I got into beat saber or something.
Was it over hyped? Maybe. But it's still a cool technology and I'd be sad to see it fall into nothingness. I don't see a future where everyone is wearing VR glasses, but it's still a very neat thing to enjoy every now and then.