Ahh yes. Nothing like killing a perp and a few bystanders for a few dollars' worth of fare. USA! USA!
this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024
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I think if people had even more guns this could have been avoided. What if there was a six year old with a 22 there to respond to the gunshots with some of his own? maybe less people would be dead.
Guns make everyone way safer. We need to start providing them in utero.
How dare you politicize gun violence while a police officer is injured!
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Take the guns from the police and give them to the embryos. I think you're on to something here.
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NYPD goes HARD on toll jumpers, but there's virtually zero enforcement on traffic and cars. Everywhere I go I see assholes with illegally modified vehicles, degenerates speeding down shoulders and medians, motorcycles on crowded sidewalks and pedestrian paths, and too many drunk drivers to count. There are so many cases where one pig parked on the shoulder during rush hour would fund the city budget for a year.
Instead we get whole families of pigs loitering by the turnstiles
The NYPD also loves to go after jaywalkers and vagrants, particularly when they're interfering with the flow of street traffic.
Cars are King, baby.
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Who drives and who uses the subway.
That's your answer.
Clearly that's where the money is. $2.90 goes hard
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NYPD: The dumbest kid from every high school on Long Island.
I'm in Suffolk and can confirm. Kid got a 680/2400 on the SAT. Not that the SAT is a great intelligence test but damn.
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They used more money in ammunition than the amount of money the shootout started over!
Just having them there on detail probably costs more than they recover from fare evaders.
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“We will be working through the timeline of today, but make no mistake, the events that occurred on the Sutter Avenue station platform are the results of an armed perpetrator who was confronted by our officers doing the job we asked them to do," Donlon said.
Could we maybe not ask police officers to escalate minor and petty conflicts all the way up to shooting everyone in the immediate vicinity?
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Schrodingers pig.
The cop shot an innocent bystander in the head but also shot another cop. Until trial, he is both a bad guy with a gun and a good guy with a gun.
NYPD pays $126,000 annual salary, that's about $60 an hour or $1 a minute, 4 cops respond to the fair jumper, if they spent more than 45 seconds on this it costs the city more than the fair was worth.
The point is not how much it costs.
The point is that a poor person needs punishment, and if they're lucky, they might get to shoot somebody.
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Imagine the 2 by standards suing the department getting and 6 million dollars. Because shooting a guy for jumping a turn style worth 2.90.
This is a joke they need to take that money out of the police officers pension.
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This obviously has in part to do with the toxic American gun culture and it's corrupt and untrained police, but alsonwoth it's misguided need for what it thinks is justice, and revenge for real or imagined crimes.
Shoplift something small? In you go with hardened criminals to punish punish punish, fuck you for daring to do that! No rehabilitation, just punish
A lot of Americans complain about low prison sentences in Europe, not understanding that the focus there is on actually solving the problem of crime, instead of revenge, revenge, revenge.
It makes more sense if you start from the premise that there are "good people" and "bad people", and bad people need to be punished to protect good people. The people who do the protections--like Joe Arpaio--can do no wrong. Even if they seem to do bad things, that's just in the service of protecting good people.
This premise is bullshit, but everything follows from there.
The problem is rooted in prison spending moving from a social cost to a private revenue stream.
It's the classic Cobra Effect of economics. Monetizing the solution to a problem creates an incentive to increase the instances of said problem.
In this case, we have criminalized the free use of public transportation in order to justify more spending on policing.
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Why hasn't the city released the full body cam footage?
This is an age old American tradition of shooting people who try to stow on train cars. There is an image in American culture of the freighthopping hobo who is trying to find a better place to live and work despite not having a dime to his name. Of course in reality many people have been shot for doing that. Property and a few dollars is worth much, much more than a poor person's life.
This is like an unfunny onion article. The fact that there can be civilian casualties in NYPDs war on fare jumpers is just shameful. It's not for the money. They spend $150 million a year to recover $100k. Beyond an embarrassment.
Can we just go back to having a legitimate conductor who also has a protected union job that is properly staffed so that they can do occasional walks through the train to be able to offer ticketing services that allow for rapid and mass transit for the masses that connect us in a way that allows for fucking easy travel.
Please! Or can we at least stop treating trains like an old existing extension of the singularly for profit monopolies paid by the government they were and just straight up have been allowed to become again!
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I mean according to the article, technically they just tried to stop him over the $2.90 fare.
Then because of that he threatened to kill them and they realized he had a knife so they tasered him.
Then when that didn't work and he ran at them with the knife they opened fire.
Multiple people are still dead because they brought guns into a disagreement over $2.90, but the headline implies a lot more unreasonableness on the individual cops' parts as opposed to the overall policy.
Then because of that he threatened to kill them
They claim he made a threat. The article failed to print his side of the story for some curious reason. It isn't printing any testimony from the bystanders, either.
Multiple people are still dead because they brought guns into a disagreement over $2.90, but the headline implies a lot more unreasonableness on the individual cops’ parts as opposed to the overall policy.
Cops will often lie about the danger of a suspect in order to justify elevating their use-of-force. That said, they weren't that concerned by his unreasonableness when they deployed tasers into the crowd first. They didn't switch to guns until they realized the tasers weren't going to work.
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Then because of that he threatened to kill them and they realized he had a knife so they tasered him.
Then when that didn't work and he ran at them with the knife they opened fire.
Is the version of what's the killers are saying. I'll believe it when I see the camera footage. Good thing they have bodycams, so they can instantly prove their story.
Can't we just make the Subway so cheap that it's not worth jumping the toll? Or make it so low income people get free fares.
We could spend millions of dollars on making fares cheaper for people, but have you considered we can instead give that money to the police so they can prevent mere thousands of dollars in free rides?
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Such a reaction is insane, in other countries they would be prosecuted, right?
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I am waiting for former cop PR man Adams' defense of the cops with bated breath.
It sounds like the guy had a knife and threatened to use it. It also sounds like the cops tried to taze the guy first, but it didn't work.
We can argue whether the cops really needed to shoot the guy. But they weren't shooting at a fare evader, they were shooting at a guy with a knife who also happened to jump the turnstile.
I'd argue that the real problem is that the cops didn't know how to de-escalate the situation without shooting. It's like the tazer was their only "non-lethal" option, and when that didn't work, they panicked. (I could also believe that they were simply incompetent, and couldn't work the tazer properly.)
The guy only threatened to use the knife after they stopped him for turnstile jumping. If the New York subway didn't have turnstiles (the L.A. subway doesn't), most people would still pay their fares. Most people understand that their fares keep the trains running. There was no need for this. At all.
I should say that there are transit cops that check tickets in L.A. If you don't have one, all they do is escort you out of the station. And this is the LAPD we're talking about.
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Do we actually know if he had a knife? Initial reporting was that the police knew he had a knife because he refused to take his hands out of his pockets. While he did threaten them, it was contingent upon them continuing to follow them. He did not actually attack them until after multiple officers attempted to tase him. Furthermore, so what if he had a knife? As far as we're aware, he's got a second amendment right to keep and bear arms. Being armed isn't an excuse to be killed by cops because you are generally explicitly allowed to be armed.
All in all:
- We don't know he's armed
- We don't know his intentions
- He didn't immediately attack anyone
- While he did threaten them he made no indication that he intended to follow through until he was attacked
- He continued to try to leave the situation until he was attacked
- The police attacked him first
- He didn't have a gun
- 4 people were shot by the police; ~~he was killed~~ (this seems to have been erroneously reported earlier. He is now reportedly in critical condition), an officer and 2 bystanders were wounded
- No one was stabbed
While that is textbook escalation, it really doesn't seem like they shot him cause he had a knife. They shot him (and 3 others) cause he didn't care about their authority and they couldn't let the guy that was already on the train go. And all that came about because he tried to skip a fare that costs around the same amount as the bullets fired.
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How much would this criminal get away with?
Roughly $3.00.
The only message I got was cops are unhinged.
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Our system of regulation has become dysfunctional.
Our police system turns human beings into violence machines. If our police system creates behavior like this from the people closest to it then that system is broken.
The officers are doing what humans do when given too much raw force.
Change the system and the officers will change with it.
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