this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2024

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Russia keeps trying to replace the bridges that Ukraine destroys. Ukraine is taking out those, too. (www.businessinsider.com)

submitted 3 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

37 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Ukraine appears to be targeting Russian attempts to build temporary bridges in Kursk.
This comes after 3 permanent bridges were reportedly destroyed by Ukraine.
Ukraine looks to be trying to cut off Russian forces in the region.

all 38 comments

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[–] [email protected] 65 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Ukrainian forces were "striking pontoon bridges and engineering equipment in the western part of their operational zone

These engineers have a shit job if the military is forcing them to work under fire. Usually you try to defend the less armed part of the military (medics, command, engineers, supply) because that's what really powers the organization. If you can't defend your weak spots, you are going to lose.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Russia has proven that it can't protect weak points because the entire military is a weak point. Can't wait to see the military parade in May.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

Can’t wait to see the military parade in May.

The parade with the one tank left in Russia?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Its actually gonna be a division of convincing-looking conscripts holding up cardboard cutouts, making vehicle noises and shaking

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

shaking in fear?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

Is not fear! Is great Russian acting!! See? Even acting oil spills in pant!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

The parade with one talk was already done Next one will be on zoom.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

These engineers have a shit job if the military is forcing them to work under fire.

If Russia had the ability to force Ukrainian artillery and airpower out of range of the rivers, which is probably what it'd take to keep said engineers from having to work under fire, then I suspect that there wouldn't be a need for a cross-river evacuation in the first place.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Well I'm not an expert, but it's possible to use cruise missiles and long range bombers to provide cover for the few days it might take to evacuate. Maybe they are busy blowing up apartment buildings and hospitals though.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The issue with cruise missiles and bombers as a response to artillery fire is the response time and air defences.

A cruise missile launched from well within Russia takes long enough to reach the target that mobile artillery has sufficient time to get out. You also need a significant amount of missiles if you want to get any through the air defences.

Bombers struggle to get in range for conventional bombs without being shot down. They also have the issue of response time.

Cruise missiles and bombers are more suited to rather stationary targets, like a command Center, FOB, strongpoint or trench system.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I think people are used to the last couple of decades of Western powers (especially the "super" one) facing underequip militias or 3rd World armies with 4 generations-old equipment.

If you don't "control the skies" - which means the other side either never had long range AA or all of it got taken out - options like high altitude bombers and cruise missiles, that just worked unimpeded in places like Afghanistan and Yemen (so the only viable strategy for the other side was "don't get spotted", which highly limits the whole " bomb the other side's bridges") don't actually work all that well.

Militarily Ukraine is nothing at all like Afghanistan: they started already having S300 and meanwhile they've received even better AA systems from the West such as Patriots, plus they have to expertise to make and maintain their own modern(ish) military hardware since they were one of the prime designers and makers of it back in Soviet times, so strategies involving air power against them won't at all work the same (cruise missiles have to be used in large numbers with low rates of success, especially in the most well protected areas like Kyiv, bombers have to stand 100s of kms from the Ukrainian airspace otherwise they'll be dodging long range AA missiles).

This is actually a modern day version of a the traditional war between two equivalent nations, not asymmetric warfare like every single conflict the US has been involved in since WWII or a the least Korea.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Ok then, fighter-bombers or more artillery. If the bridge is in range of Ukrainian drones, then the drone base station is in range of counter fire.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think you're overestimating the staging and emplacement for a drone attack of these types. They don't need a static "drone base station."

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Like I said, I'm not an expert but I think big drones that can take down a bridge aren't piloted by two dudes in a bush.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

They are probably controlled by one dude in a bush.

Of course you need a base for preparation, but you can drive out to the front and start the drone there.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

The currently most viable counter to artillery in Ukraine today appears to be either fpv drones, which have relatively short range and limited payloads, or counter-battery radar + artillery, which exposes your artillery by putting it in range of enemy artillery.

Ukraine typically has more accurate artillery than Russia, and seems to win more artillery duels, but of course still has an issue because of Russias huge volume of guns.

Targeting the drone operators is definitely something both sides do- they were considered priority targets last time I heard someone mention it. The issue, as someone else pointed out, is locating and hitting a small, highly mobile person or group that can operate from behind cover and concealment. That turns out to be pretty hard. Just consider that an infantryman's primary survival strategy is "stay hidden when you can, covered when you can, and move as fast as possible when exposed", and that drone operators are doing exactly that, while also not needing to stick their head out to be effective.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

Cruise missiles and heavy bombers are strategic weapons and can't really directly cover a retreat. They are good against power plants and bridges, not Serhiy with a Dragunov picking your guys off in the undergrowth.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Saw the footage a few days ago, they actually used drones for this too. Not the bridges but the construction vehicles. Blew them up while they were building it.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I wonder if this is another one of those perfect areas to waste Russian resources. I doubt they have an endless supply of temporary bridge materials and engineers to build them.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

Logistics wins wars. You could mail a package from Ohio and it would end up in Afghanistan at some soldiers hooch (send white lighters and socks). Russians throw bodies at the fight and trade space for time, they are getting a small taste of NATO/US logistics and now the UA is on the offense.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

"It's still up...no it aint" - Some Russian General

[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

"Artillery never hits the same spot twice" - Same Russian General

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 weeks ago

He only said it once though. The second time was just a crater where he stood.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

I know you don't mean it this way but I can't resist. https://youtu.be/aw_wouXS48U?t=23

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

That’s gotta be so demoralizing Lmao

[–] Aurenkin 14 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

It must make for very exciting bridge crossings. You'd never quite know if you'll make it to the other side.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 weeks ago

It's like frogger, but completely different.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 weeks ago

3 "permanent" bridges

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Didn't Russia have a fuckton of amphibious APCs and IFVs and snorkels for tanks and whatever? Did they lose all of that?

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago

They need the bridge for logistics. Fuel, Food, Water, munitions. It's all dandy if you can get a couple of these war machines across, but if you cannot resupply them sufficiently they are just heavy trailers for ukranians farmers.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago

Military & Defense Russia keeps trying to replace the bridges that Ukraine destroys. Ukraine is taking out those, too. Mia Jankowicz Aug 22, 2024, 8:47 AM EDT

A screenshot from drone video shared by Ukrainian special operations forces on August 21, 2024. It appears to show engineering equipment attempting to lay down a pontoon bridge platform on the Seym River, in Kursk, Western Russia, amid Ukraine's incursion into the region.

Special Operations Forces of Ukraine/Telegram Ukraine says it is destroying Russian pontoon bridges in Kursk before they can even be constructed.

On Wednesday, Ukrainian special forces released a video compilation that appeared to show attacks on several Russian efforts to build pontoons, or temporary floating bridges.

"Where do Russian pontoon bridges 'disappear' in the Kursk region?" wrote Ukraine's Special Operations Forces Telegram account, adding that its soldiers "accurately destroy them," according to Reuters' translation.

The claim comes after reports that Ukrainian forces had destroyed three permanent bridges over the Seym river in the western Russian region, in an apparent effort to isolate Russian forces there.

The footage, which Business Insider was unable to verify, was shared on the 16th day of Ukraine's incursion into Russian territory.

As of Monday, Ukrainian forces were "striking pontoon bridges and engineering equipment in the western part of their operational zone in the Glushkovo district," the Ukrainian think tank the Centre for Defence Strategies reported.

Satellite imagery seen by the Associated Press showed pontoons at two locations along the Seym.

One of them, between Glushkovo and Zvannoye, was visible in the imagery as of Sunday — but by Monday it had disappeared, with smoke rising nearby, the news agency reported.

The images were shared on X by Radio Free Europe reporter Mark Krutov:

A low-res @planet satellite image taken today, Aug. 19th, shows that the Russian pontoon bridge between Zvannoye and Glushkovo in Kursk oblast is gone, with smoke rising 500 meters away from where it used to be, on the 'Russian' bank. Makes sense if we speak about the withdrawal. pic.twitter.com/YxtaNeyOzh

— Mark Krutov (@kromark) August 19, 2024 Ukraine says it has captured just under 500 square miles of territory in Kursk, and has set up a military headquarters there, in a sign that it intends to dig in for a while.

On Sunday, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said he intended to create a buffer zone in the region.

The bridges destroyed so far are all along the Seym; their destruction appears to be an attempt to pin Russian troops between Ukrainian-controlled territory, the Ukrainian border, and the river, the AP reported.

The footage shared by Ukraine's special forces on Wednesday appeared to show drones targeting engineering equipment on the banks of the Seym being used to lay down the temporary bridges.

Other clips show vehicles — presumably carrying the necessary equipment — also being taken out by drones.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Soviet security strategy always relied on maintenance of a buffer zone in which to contain any fighting. This war was lost the minute the Budapest accords were signed.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Huh?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm talking about Russia's inability to defend territory.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

I don't understand what you mean in regards to the Budapest Accords and a hypothetical buffer zone.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

If you dig deep deep inside the dirt and rocks , eventually you will find the Balrog.