Free Software
What is free software?
Free software is software that respects the 4 software freedoms. The 4 freedoms are
- The freedom to run the run the program
- The freedom to study the source code
- The freedom to modify the source code
- The freedom to distribute modified versions of the source code
Please note: Free software does not relate to monetary price. Free software can be sold or gratis (no cost)
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Overall this community is pretty laid back and none if the things list above normally are an issue.
I do wish this was under the GPLv3 but you can't have it all
I’d love to hear your thoughts on why you feel the GPLv3 is better than the BSD2-clause license LadyBird is using.
GPLv3 is virally open source (copyleft), BSD 2-Clause is not.
GPLv3 ensures free software remains free and contributions cannot be exploited and withheld from the community. BSD2C does not.
GPLv3 makes a company publish the source under the same license. That means no Vivaldi, Chrome, Edge or any other spyware ad ridden browsers. I don't think we need more lock in.
I understand your reasoning, but I think your logic is flawed. If Ladybird is GPLv3, then browsers will continue to use Chromium base which helps the Chrome monopoly. By making it BSD, it will help others adopt it.
We don't need that much adoption we just need a engine that is capable of not screwing over everyone. We already have plenty of proprietary browsers.
Admittedly BSD may help Ladybug get more funding and development efforts.
I'd favour GPL3 too, but we do need wide adoption because that's the only way an independent browser will influence websites not to just design for Chromium. That needs to happen for the new browser to have any impact on Google's ability to dictate standards unilaterally.
Who are “we”?
The privacy and freedom community
You guys should make a browser engine
Given the complexity of creating a new browser securely (or at all) then this suggestion is not good.
We already have projects that focus on smaller parts of a web browser (e.g a video player) which are free software. We should work on those and encourage their use over all browsers.
Easy enough - i assume you are working on one of these
That is a massive undertaking that hasn't been done in a very long time. Modern browsers have either been around for 20 years or are forks. (Sometimes both)
We are taking about creating something from scratch. That can take 5-10 years to do.
The good news is that we have plenty of tools on our tool belt. Think browsers such as Mull and Librewolf plus extensions like ublock.
Oh - I thought thats what the story was about. Building a new browser engine.
It is but it takes a lot of time
Well - I’m not part of the project but I respect the deveopers that are and that they make the right decision for their work or spare time.
If you are part of the project but feel that your effort is wasted you should indeed work on something else
I'm normally in the camp that copyleft prevents enterprise adoption, and therefore limits users/contributors... but in this case I agree. I'd like browsers to be copyleft. I'd like to be able to see what kind of sketchy shit Edge and Chrome are throwing on top of Chromium and have it out in the open.
Question for the free software community...
If I used a headless version of a copyleft browser as part of an automated testing suite for proprietary enterprise software, does that violate the copyleft license?
Looks like it has a reasonable base. But they are targeting an alpha for early 26?
Oof.
Hey it looks like there is some thought behind this; starting a 501c3 and going from there.
Deep sigh…. Good luck Mr Gorkski
I legitimately thought 501c3 was a commit hash before my brain engaged.
You...I like you.
🤣🤣🤣
It takes time to start from the ground up. There are a huge amount of web standards and to do it right takes time. It took a long time from Chromium to become usable.
First Servo, now this. Good times ahead.
Randomly stumbled upon this community, pretty cool!
I mean... considering that firefox is still kind of a clusterfuck for a surprising number of websites...
I am glad this exists but I see no practical use for it for... anyone. And the cynic in me thinks this will be even more ammunition for "just use chromium, it actually works" akin to the crowd who insist on telling every single person who is considering trying out linux to use arch or gentoo.
... Is it?
I genuinely haven't encountered anything broken using it, short of Youtube. And that's less Firefox and more all the extensions trying to make it usable, I think. There are a couple of bits of functionality missing, but in terms of sites working, it seems perfectly fine.
I've also encountered a few issues with Firefox on mobile, but not enough to stop using it as my daily driver.
I don't really blame Firefox though, I'd guess that their implementation is closer to the spec than Chrome's but that companies are cheaping out on testing in multiple browsers.
The search function of the Walmart site was broken for a year or two on mobile but it seems it's been fixed. A few webpages I needed for school explicitly weren't supported in non-chromium browers.
Sonys website breaks for me
Square enix bitches every fucking time
Some other niche sites I use also break in weird and violent ways sometimes
All tested with all add-ons disabled to see if that fixed them, all failed
Lol, downvote me all you want you fucking weridos, doesn't change the facts
Huh. I've used Sony's site recently and I just opened it to see if I noticed anything broken but it seems fine. Of course somebody not seeing a bug doesn't mean the bug doesn't exist, it's not that I don't believe you. All I'm saying is I've been primarily on Firefox for a while now and that hasn't been my experience.
This was my thought, as well. It also reminds me a bit of this classic xkcd.
We saw the best innovation during the most competitive times in the browser market.
I think either this will die soon or more likely it will be noticed my companies that have been screwed by Google. Google has made lots of unpopular choices with Chromium and I wouldn't be surprised if at least a few companies started funding it in hopes that it might be viable in 5 years. It took a long time to create Chromium.
If they aren't funding Mozilla, which is a far more significant company with a long history of browser development, the chances they're gonna fund a brand-new browser that very few people have even heard about is next to none.
They aren't funding Mozilla as Mozilla is built on egg shells
While mozilla/firefox is indeed a giant mess of legacy code: Why would a company instead support a hobbyist project with almost zero resources?
At that point we are in the mythical "What if the small business of the world united and made their own product" territory
It doesn't have zero resources. It has at least 1.2 million dollars
It is not exclusively Firefox but Mozilla corp has 750 staff and 593 million in revenue according to Wikipedia.
One million is maybe ten part time developers for a year.
This is great. Can’t wait to use it.
Don't get to excited as it is very new and will take a lot of time and money to stay alive.
Very cool though