this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2024
175 points (95.3% liked)
Free Software
1057 readers
5 users here now
What is free software?
Free software is software that respects the 4 software freedoms. The 4 freedoms are
- The freedom to run the run the program
- The freedom to study the source code
- The freedom to modify the source code
- The freedom to distribute modified versions of the source code
Please note: Free software does not relate to monetary price. Free software can be sold or gratis (no cost)
Rules:
- Please keep on topic
- Follow the Lemmy.zip rules
- No memes
- No "circle jerking" or inflammatory posts
- No discussion of illegal content
Please report anything you believe to violate the rules and be sure to include rhetoric on why you think it should be removed.
If you would like to contest mod actions please DM me with your rational as to why you feel that the relivant mod action should be reversed. Remember to use rhetoric and to site any relevant sources. You will only get one chance to argue your point and continued harassment will result in a ban.
Overall this community is pretty laid back and none if the things list above normally are an issue.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I do wish this was under the GPLv3 but you can't have it all
I’d love to hear your thoughts on why you feel the GPLv3 is better than the BSD2-clause license LadyBird is using.
GPLv3 is virally open source (copyleft), BSD 2-Clause is not.
GPLv3 ensures free software remains free and contributions cannot be exploited and withheld from the community. BSD2C does not.
Your first statement is patently false and misleading.
Being “copyleft” is not a requirement for being open source. Maybe you’re thinking of free software. There are differences, but as the FSF is quoted, they are also very similar.
To my understanding, and if I’m wrong I’d love to know why, both GPLv3 and BSD2 both ensure the openness of software. They just go about it differently. GPL (I’m not super versed at v3) basically means any modifications to GPL’d code must also be GPL’d, and source made available; also, if you statically link against other GPL’d code, your code must be GPL’d. Dynamic linking (or linking against LGPL code, like glibc) does not have this requirement.
With BSD code, your only requirement is that the code (or binaries) must remain BSD2. Sure, someone can make modifications and keep them to themselves for fun and profit. But that doesn’t mean the rest of the community has to follow suit. The original code remains open and available with no license modifications. If a company owns BSD2 code, and goes under, the community can simply fork the code and take ownership as they please.
Neither license is perfect, and I’m sure we could find plenty of examples of people/companies that have abused both licenses.
You asked a simple question about "better" which is pretty subjective for whooping out the references along accusations of falsehood.
"virally open source"
Which answered the original question quite succinctly. I wish you would have read more carefully before...
I asked what the OP felt was better about GPLv3.
The person who responded made provably false statements. I know they are false, because I went to look it up; which is outlined in my “[whooped] out references”.
You still don't read.
Enlighten me; what is it I’m missing?
GPL is virally open source, because code using it needs to also be open source.
According to your comment, that doesn't apply to BSD, so BSD isn't virally open source, and the claim is true.
The reason some consider this better is because a company can't fork the code, keeping it private, improving their version with paid workforce while also merging in changes to the original project, thus ending up with a superior version that they can then sell for profit, to no benefit of the opensource version or the people contributing to it.
There's more reasons, and a whole ideological side, but I think that's the main practical reason for using copyleft licenses, and a big one.
Nothing I said is remotely untrue, for a start. Both licenses - and their pros and cons - are well documented, well-tread territory. It’s weird that you even had to ask.
And really weird how you seem to be taking my comment so personally while simultaneously spreading misinformation, literally admitting that you don’t know what you’re talking about (“not very well versed”) AND putting words in my mouth. 🤷🏽
Like, that’s a LOT. You doing alright, fam?
I'll just drop this here
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html
https://www.gnu.org/licenses/
GPLv3 makes a company publish the source under the same license. That means no Vivaldi, Chrome, Edge or any other spyware ad ridden browsers. I don't think we need more lock in.
I understand your reasoning, but I think your logic is flawed. If Ladybird is GPLv3, then browsers will continue to use Chromium base which helps the Chrome monopoly. By making it BSD, it will help others adopt it.
We don't need that much adoption we just need a engine that is capable of not screwing over everyone. We already have plenty of proprietary browsers.
Admittedly BSD may help Ladybug get more funding and development efforts.
I'd favour GPL3 too, but we do need wide adoption because that's the only way an independent browser will influence websites not to just design for Chromium. That needs to happen for the new browser to have any impact on Google's ability to dictate standards unilaterally.
Who are “we”?
The privacy and freedom community
You guys should make a browser engine
Given the complexity of creating a new browser securely (or at all) then this suggestion is not good.
We already have projects that focus on smaller parts of a web browser (e.g a video player) which are free software. We should work on those and encourage their use over all browsers.
Easy enough - i assume you are working on one of these
That is a massive undertaking that hasn't been done in a very long time. Modern browsers have either been around for 20 years or are forks. (Sometimes both)
We are taking about creating something from scratch. That can take 5-10 years to do.
The good news is that we have plenty of tools on our tool belt. Think browsers such as Mull and Librewolf plus extensions like ublock.
Oh - I thought thats what the story was about. Building a new browser engine.
It is but it takes a lot of time
Well - I’m not part of the project but I respect the deveopers that are and that they make the right decision for their work or spare time.
If you are part of the project but feel that your effort is wasted you should indeed work on something else
I'm normally in the camp that copyleft prevents enterprise adoption, and therefore limits users/contributors... but in this case I agree. I'd like browsers to be copyleft. I'd like to be able to see what kind of sketchy shit Edge and Chrome are throwing on top of Chromium and have it out in the open.
Question for the free software community...
If I used a headless version of a copyleft browser as part of an automated testing suite for proprietary enterprise software, does that violate the copyleft license?