"American companies are scared of the open market when it works against them, yet refuse to make better products"
this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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[Dormant] Electric Vehicles
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There is a good reason why American companies are scared. It almost never works out for them. Sony vs Zenith TVs is a great example about how a foreign company improved on a technology (color tv) and made zenith look like a stingy dinosaur overnight. Instead of selling color TV's zenith just doubled down and sold cheaper shittier TV's. By the time color was standard, their reputation was ruined and no one wanted a Zenith when Sony was the best. Sony however wouldn't have been able to get into the market without help from zenith in the first place.
They should stop choosing the "double down on making products shittier part".
You could've been telling the story of the 80s automotive industry. Or really any American manufacturer.
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The issue was that Chinese EVs are ahead of Western EVs due to aggressive subsidy and investment by the Chinese government to get ahead. So the market has been distorted which is what was "scary" according to the quite in the article that spawned the headline.
Having said that, I'm not sure I believe that Chinese EVs will be better quality. They may be cheaper and they may even have technically advanced but from experience of other Chinese products, quality is not a word I'd associate with them.
The US government can do the same, and they do bailouts for companies often too. Isn't that also meddling in the free market? Why didn't the US government incentivize EV then?
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BYD is so ahead because they were making batteries for a long time before going into ev business. Also I would not say tesla quality is high either
Look into Harley Davidson, they should have gone bankrupt multiple times but were saved by high tarrifs placed on imported bikes.
Harleys are so ridiculously overpriced it's hard to believe tariffs on the competition would make any difference
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due to aggressive subsidy and investment by the Chinese government
yes. similar to a lot of western products.
Americans aren't going to care about quality that much if their monthly payment is only $200. As long as a Chinese EV is reliable long enough to make it's total cost of ownership much lower than American EVs or ICEs they will line up to buy them.
The American market has been desperate for a cheap and reliable car, a role Japanese automakers used to fill, and both US and Japanese makers know it.
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"Americans Are Open To Cheap ~~Chinese~~ Cars"
"People don’t have money. That’s scary for companies selling expensive products."
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The issue is that there aren't low cost cars anymore. Everything is over 25k and the used cars market is insane.
So yeah, no shit we want cheaper cars.
Yeah, it's wild to me. I was looking to replace a vehicle and cheapest ev was just over $30k. But none have been in stock, only $45k+.
People will be Open to affordable cars from anyone if the traditional makers don't start offering affordable vehicles.
Shocker. People don’t want to pay $40k + to commute to work.
A lot of people want a reasonably priced car that can commute, have enough range for something fun on the weekend, and have a stereo that isn’t total shit.
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Whose fault is it?
Chinese EV manufacturers, on the other hand, are already five to 10 years ahead of their American and European rivals, Kumar said. A lot of that is thanks to aggressive investments in the EV industry from the Chinese government.
It's amazing what kind of leaps you can make with government funding research.
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I’ll pay extra for three things: efficiency/electrification, longevity/repairability, and a UAW sticker. What I won’t pay extra for is a giant car, executive bonuses, and car salespeople.
Apparently when everything's made in China, it gives China a bit of an advantage...
.... who'd have thought, except everyone who said so when the west started outsourcing all their manufacturing work there.
Fyi, the US is the second biggest manufacturer after China. And per capita the US is a bigger manufacturer.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/manufacturing-by-country
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And every dly that goes by that companies send more shit there to be made blows my mind until you realize that corporations have no loyalty to the country in which they reside and stay only as long as the country subsidizes them and allows them to get away with paying no taxes.
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Is it possible that Americans just don't have any good domestic options for an adorable EV....
Hey, the Eggasus is plenty adorable.
Still waiting for someone to make a Catbus EV though.
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Make small trucks you stupid pieces of shit! Make them SMALL.
Fuck the chicken tax, I want my Toyota helix.
Capitalists hate competition.
Aside from the chicken tax, Trump also slapped another 25% tariff on Chinese cars specifically because fuck you if you want a small cheap EV.
And it's not only about tariffs. Many regulations benefit big cars. There's CAFE, which ties emissions limits to a car's footprint: the larger the car, the less stringent the emission standard is. General Motors average fuel economy has actually gotten worse in the past 5 years. And, there's a $30k tax break for small businesses that buy a vehicle for work that weighs over 6,000 lbs. fully loaded.
Did you know the US has had a "gas guzzler tax" since 1978? It applies to every car that gets less than 22.5 mpg. Except for SUVs and pickups, those are for some reason exempt. The US also has some of the lowest gasoline taxes among rich nations, giving very little incentive to buy a car that consumes less fuel.
US federal safety regulations and crash tests, contrary to European ones, do not consider anything other than the occupant of the car. The risks to pedestrians or cyclists are not a consideration at all when evaluating the safety of the car.
Consider that car makers make substantially bigger margins on the large vehicle segment, and the reasons for all these nonsensical regulations start becoming clear.
Yes! I hate how the 'small' trucks nowdays are still full fucking size.
I used to have an old ass ford ranger and that beast was great.
Fairly fuel efficient considering it's age. Fitted perfectly on the road.
It wasn't 17 feet off the ground for no reason. You could easily load and unload the bed.
I got so excited when I heard they were bringing it back.
Then of course it's a full size (aka oversized) pickup that got worse mileage than the 30 year old version.
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the U.S industry has up to the time when BYD finishes its factory in Mexico to design more sub 20k vehicles.
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If our domestic market won't give us the cheap EV we have been begging for, then I'll take a cheap Chinese car.
Sounds like Ford might be the answer here if they release a cheap car.
Tesla all but cancelled their cheap EV by firing the whole new car development teams yesterday.
We will eventually have a golden age for cheap EVs, it's just too bad the domestic market is going to be so far behind.
I'll buy a new electric car from anyone. It just needs:
- Over 175miles on a charge
- To cost less than $30K
- To not collect any data on me
My longest regular drive (few times a year) is around 75 miles each way. I just want to be able to do that without worrying about charging.
I could afford something that's $45K, but I don't want to, I don't need that much car.
And not data-mining everything I do to sell to my insurance company, is really a standard thing that should never happen.
Just about anything else I'm flexible with. And from what I've seen, it should be relatively easy to build that car.
Bonus point if I can get an actual color!
Something that's not black, white, or grey.
Bonus point if I can get an actual color!
Something that's not black, white, or grey.
Best we can do is wet putty gray
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This reminds me a lot of how American car companies built giant land yachts until the Gas Crisis, and then had to compete with cheaper, more efficient, and more reliable Japanese car brands. Car companies know that we need to maintain a certain level of industrial output to stay competitive geopolitically, so they know they'll get bailed out if they fail. So they're gonna keep making these mistakes.
Is there a Chinese electric hot hatch or roadster that doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles?
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Most Americans are open to cheap anything without caring about quality, or slave labor, or giving their money to people who will use it against them. See also WalMart and Dollar General.
You say that like Ford, Stellantis, and GM aren't building their cars out of the same slave-built components as BYD, just with a +80% price increase because they're Amerikkkan.
I wanted my car made in America. So, I bought a Toyota.
Joking aside, even if someone goes through all the "effort" to buy an "American Made" car, a lot of the components are probably made in China anyway. With the very long tail of logistical chains these days, it's almost impossible to know the providence of all the pieces of anything. And even the suppliers have no clue about all the places their parts are ending up.
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They should do what meta did and lobby for a competition ban. Oh wait I am positive they are already.
Yes I want a cheap EV. I don't need all that infotainment garbage, I don't need to have a machine too big to park. I want a small fuel efficient car that just works and just works off electricity instead of gas. Not freaken hard
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It’s my understanding that they’re approved for sale in Europe, who I assume are fairly competent in testing things like cars. If I could get a dirt cheap electric as a city only runabout (which is 95% of my driving) I’d probably jump on that.
What ever happened to the whole competition thing, ya commies?
They should be scared. Its their policies that drive the shift. Stop giving outrageous monetary rewards to management and put that money into r&d and try to actually produce things people want
To play devil's advocate, it's not the slightest bit hard to see why. I'd almost be curious to see it happen.
The concerns of data collection and privacy are 110% valid, but it's not like domestic cars are any better. It's a Facebook/TikTok situation, do you want American companies doing super shady shit with your data, or do you want Chinese companies doing super shady shit with your data?
Do you want GM doing shady shit with your data or do you want BYD doing shady shit with your data? Either way, one data leak is all it takes for everyone to have access to your data.
The difference between the two scenarios is that you don't need to use social media. Many Americans need a car due to our garbage public transport and non-walkable cities.
If actual competition is what it takes to make the American auto industry give a shit, then fuck it, let's see what happens. If they can't compete on price, then compete on privacy. Sell a dumb EV with physical dials and switches. I'd buy the more expensive car that doesn't track everything I do.
Is this an irresponsible take that ignores long term consequences? Probably, but that's the strategy for most companies nowadays and we need more EVs on the road ASAP (among a million other things to slow climate change).
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