Well I suppose they were right. Windows 10 was the last version of Windows for me. I'm okay with not using what little only works on windows. Unless you need something more niche/specialised, windows isn't worth the pain.
this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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Mildly Infuriating
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I wish I felt this way. I installed SuSE Tumbleweed a while ago, and while I overall liked it, it was so finicky. My bluetooth ceased working after updating a bunch of stuff and I never got it working again. I feel like things are very rarely plug and play with Linux, something Windows has gotten pretty good at since, well at least XP.
Back when I used Linux as my daily driver, around 2007-2011 I was okay with that. Sure I had issues every so often, but I didn't mind spending time to solve them. Nowadays when I spend 8 hours in front of the computer for work, if I want to spend more time in front of the computer it's generally because I either want to enjoy a game, or experiment with music, what have you, and having things spontaneously crap out on me would drive me nuts.
Maybe SuSE Tumbleweed wasn't the right choice. My thinking there was; a rolling distro will always be up-to-date, no more big OS upgrades ever, I'll just set things up the way I like it and that's that.
That's really the biggest problem I think Linux has, unfortunately it's also one of Linux's best features - it's not a uniform experience. Yours won't be the same as mine, etc.
Some things that should be simple aren't, and sometimes getting things going can be frustrating, and you will without question at some point have to troubleshoot and fix something.
I'm fortunate that I have a lot of background and experience in the industry, and I can understand people don't want to go to that trouble, just like people don't want to learn to cook.
Most things in Linux I find these days do plug and play to some degree, but there is absolutely missing effort and/or openness from the hardware vendors. Like not being able to configure macro keys/extra mouse buttons without a windows vm.
Having said that, I found the way windows was going, adding crap into the os that I don't want, and constantly changing where settings are etc. Changing my defaults, and so on. There's just too much I don't like about the way it's managed. Also, winsecure.
I’m fortunate that I have a lot of background and experience in the industry, and I can understand people don’t want to go to that trouble, just like people don’t want to learn to cook.
I'm kind of in that boat, it's not that I can't solve the issues; I've used Linux for years. I work as a software developer, my entire day is about solving problems, sometimes it's IT related, CI, dependency updates, build tools that cease working properly because of it, integration scripts, migrations, etc. and sometimes it's more of a workflow thing; how do I best implement a solution that gets a user from A to B in the smoothest way possible?
In that way I'm like a professional cook that spent all day cooking for others, so when they get home they just don't have the energy to put all that effort into themselves.
Having said that, I found the way windows was going, adding crap into the os that I don’t want, and constantly changing where settings are etc. Changing my defaults, and so on. There’s just too much I don’t like about the way it’s managed. Also, winsecure.
I can get behind this 100%, which is doubly funny because I make my money as a .NET developer. I work with various Microsoft platforms on a daily basis. As a developer the experience is honestly really comfy, they've done a good job there. Teams can fucking go die though. What a nightmare product.
In that way I'm like a professional cook that spent all day cooking for others, so when they get home they just don't have the energy to put all that effort into themselves.
Funny that, I'm a Linux admin. I actually run my own servers for everything. I'm a firm believer in whoever owns the hardware owns the data. It's just like work but with tools that I like. I like knowing where it is, and it's not going to end the world if it's offline for a time.
I did windows admin for about 5 years though up to 2008r2, and I have to say I do like AD and ntfs ACLs (except when they break). Those times do contribute to my aversion.
I too know a thing or two about developing, back in the day I did C, pascal, C++. I remember how much easier delphi was than mfc. I got out of developing when they started dumbing down the tools further (why didn't you die, java.. C#, etc.) Electron can't die in a dumpster fire fast enough.
Don't start me on teams. I'd say the same for o365 though. Hard to believe these products make me want work to go back to lotus notes, domino, sametime...
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I'll probably get down voted to oblivion, but I remember EVERYONE had the same "I'll never move" rhetoric with Windows 7, and before that Windows XP. Ya'll eventually move.
I've moved 3 of my 6 windows boxes from 10 to 11 and it's not that much different. I just debloat the stuff I don't want and move on. Even that isn't different, ya'll remember nlite? We've been ripping crap we didn't want out of the OS for as long as I can remember.
Hell, I even remeber getting doublespace.exe off my old dos 5 disks so I could use it on my dos 6 and Windows 3.1.1 install. People who use Windows are just more used to tearing down what they don't want rather than building up what they do (*nix). Is it harder these days...marginally...is there more to remove...yup. But it's still the same crap we've always done.
The difference this time is that my computer literally can't run Win 11. I'm not throwing away a perfectly good PC just because of Win 11's hardware requirements.
Especially not for such enragingly artificial hardware requirements. Any computer able to run 64-Bit Win XP would probably run Windows 11 just fine if Microsoft hadn't decided to build instructions that only work on recent CPUs into the kernel specifically to make it not run on older hardware.
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If you still need/want to run Windows 11, you can download the ISO from Microsoft, and burn it to an USB Stick using Rufus.
Rufus lets you disable all those requirements.
But I wouldn't count on it working forever. Any Update could break your OS, cause Microsoft expects you to install it on conforming hardware.
If I wanted an operating that could break from a regular update I’d just install Arch!
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Maybe to 12, a lot of people stuck with 7 until 10, because 8 sucked. A lot of people stuck with XP because Vista sucked. A lot of people are sticking with 10 because 11 sucks. In history, Microsoft has had a usable OS every other.
If 12 is shit, perhaps Linux will finally get its day.
Windows 11 is essentially just 10 with a theme over it. 90% of the hate for Windows 11 also applies to 10. The only real new thing is the hardware requirements.
11 has ads, AI and other annoyances crammed in.
Windows 10 had ads from the start. That was the biggest complaint about it on release, and the fact that people hate 11 and are ok with 10 on that baffles me.
And somewhat coincidentally the bing shit was added to 10 before 11 got it.
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I wish. Most stuff I used to do now has extra clicks required, the right click 7z panel, the process monitor kill process button (now hidden on a submenu on a right-click), and I can't put the taskbar vertically!!! I use two monitors, I'm used to having it on the right monitor, on the left vertically. The reasoning was that not many people move their taskbar and while that might be true, after some regex modifications, the only thing that's completely broken if you put the taskbar vertical was the news button pop-up (it didn't align correctly), which is basically ads, and I'm completely against them gutting features because their ads need extra work (not that much work, just work).
Besides that, having a fat suggested apps bar on the windows menu that takes 30% of the space is a thing again, which is ad space too. Great
Anyway, KDE is cool. Thanks Microsoft, I would have persevered if it wasn't for the vertical taskbar, now I'm happier.
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W11 is also just slower than W10 for no reason. The file manager especially is quite slow.
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I remember EVERYONE had the same “I’ll never move” rhetoric with Windows 7
I did eventually move... to Linux. Windows 7 was the last version of Windows I've had installed on any machine I own.
Honestly 11 was finally the push I needed to try Linux as my main driver. Gaming finally got to the point where I could switch. The only thing they made in 11 that was beat was AutoHDR. Everything else was annoyance to me.
Dude stop reminding me how old I am. I just discovered arthritis bones that my favorite grandma decided to give me this morning.
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Windows 10 is the last version of Windows (that I am going to use)
I'll be the guy in this thread, I switched to mint for everything except CS2 (Wtf valve fix your native client) and will not be looking back.
I had to use windows yesterday. Public computer at a print shop.
Everything was shades of white, the scroll bar was barely visible, when I enlarged a window the ux elements scaled up, and there was already tons of dead ui space, so I assumed there weren't any more to show. Also, every program, even though they were all Microsoft, gave a different screen when I hit control p.
I couldn't figure out how to adjust paper size. Ive been using computers since 199(2/3), when I could barely talk. Ive used legacy systems older than me-for industrial shit, for novelty. I grew up mostly a MS-DOS then windows girl. I've installed arch. Ive run arch successfully as a daily driver, then moved to qubes for a few years. I have systems so hacked together, I need to lick a bit of wire I connected poorly to trigger a thing (3v, its fine) I currently have a dead bug soldered project sitting half finished next to me (the hardware is done, works, I'm just bad at code), in a room that could mostly pass for the set of a live action 'serial experiment lain' remake.
And I couldn't adjust print settings on modern windows. Because it's just that garbage. Two days ago I wasnt a fanatical Linux partisan. I think I am now.
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You have to understand technology is constantly evolving, which requires upgrades to allow utilization those technologies.
So they probably needed the upgrade for a new EULA, to allow for improved shenanigans built right into Windows, that will be a huge benefit to Microsoft, and would allow closer more invasive monitoring of your system, but wouldn't be legal without the new EULA.
Very legal and very cool. 🤑
Yes but then vanguard and blackrock (they control about 15% of m$ shares) saw that their investment in AMD (again, with 15% they're the biggest institutional shareholders) and their investment in Intel (more billions in shares) needed a way to increase CPU sales, so they told Microsoft to add artificial CPU requirements in order to send to the dumpster any computer produced before 2018
send to the dumpster any computer produced before 2018
You mean send into the arms of a frugal Linux enthusiast ;)
Everyone that was paying attention to the Microsoft Windows support lifecycle web page back then knew that statement was horse shit.
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And the thing of it is, millions of non-tech savvy people would not mind about having to move to Windows 11 and would do so in due course if Microsoft didn't deliberately cripple it so it won't run on a wide swath of not-too-old hardware.
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It's funny how media widely misreported this, but what's not funny is that people believe that to this day. Even in this thread people think Microsoft said that.
The quote is in the article:
Right now we're releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we're all still working on Windows 10,
They obviously meant Windows 10 is the latest version of Windows, but I guess misconstruing the quote got the clicks and then everyone went along. There was never any announcement from Microsoft, all of the "Windows 10 is the final version of Windows" thing is based on misconstruing the quote. If a reporter really believed this interpretation to be the case, it would be easy to just ask Microsoft, but they didn't. Or did, got the "lol no of course it's not last" answer and ignored it because that would make their clickbait article go away.
I don’t think that’s a fair interpretation, I think Microsoft absolutely intended what they said here, that Windows 10 was the last version of Windows. Hence the shift in development strategy. Annual breaking updates rather than new full releases, the new month-year versioning cycle, free for anyone with a valid Windows 7, 8 or 8.1 license.
I think the goal was to eventually drop the “10” and for it to just be Windows as a service, where major versions don’t really matter and the UX slowly evolves over time rather than in one big change.
Then, something happened. Obviously this is purely speculative, but I suspect either the executive championing this strategy left, or they saw it cutting into their profits more than they anticipated, or enterprises complained about frequent breaking updates, who knows. Then Windows 11 appeared out of nowhere. The signalling from MS for enterprise was clear. Stop monolithic imaging and site-wide rollouts, instead test applications with a pilot group and then push the annual releases wide if no issues are found.
I definitely think something changed. While you’re right that this is the only quote supporting it directly, when asked in follow-ups Microsoft went out of its way to NOT deny the statement or confirm it. If the plan was the status quo, they would have just said “we have not changed our release model at this time” but they didn’t. They knew full well that based on how widely reported that quote was, people would infer that it was the strategy. If they felt so strongly that it was just a simple misspeaking, they would have said so.
Windows 11 is technically still Windows 10, if you go by the actual version reported by the systeminfo command. For example, my fully updated Windows 11 Pro VM reports itself as OS Version: 10.0.22631, so there might still be something to the idea that "Windows 10 is the last version" but the marketing and branding teams didn't stay on the same message.
That version number is pretty meaningless though. If you look at version numbers, vista, 7 and 8 were all 6.x. I'm pretty sure they do numbering based on some underlying architecture feature, and when it changes enough they change the major version number.
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I'll be staying on 10 for as long as possible, so that by the time I have to upgrade people will have found ways to mod most of the bullshit out of the newer version.
The last [good] version of Windows.
That would be 7. With 10 Microsoft went heavily into the snooping business.
The telemetry of Windows 10 back in 2015 ain't got jack shit on the adware craziness they got years later
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The only reason I still have Windows are a few games that don't work properly on Linux (via Steam Proton) yet.
I will keep Windows 10 until Steam no longer supports it or all my games run well on Linux (I check for that occasionally). IDGAF about no longer getting security updates as I have moved everything except for those few games to Linux years ago.
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