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Desperate TikTok lobbying effort backfires on Capitol Hill (www.bbc.com)

submitted 6 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

There's a lot more to this than "LeTs HaTe ChINa!"

Do your research. The bipartisan effort to ban a state owned app has merit. I wish that our leaders would be more educated on other efforts of foreign nations to amass US user data.

Frankly, I hope that this leads us to look inward at how our own US incorporated entities amass and exploit our data. I recognize the trend toward improving that line of effort but feel like it can only go so far.

I guess since our congressmen invest a significant sum of money in big tech, while simultaneously receiving millions in lobbyist dollars, they'll probably continue to ignore a lot of the problems at home.

It seems that the American people vote with payouts in mind, and our elected officials do the same. Unfortunate.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 6 months ago

It's quite painfully transparent seeing the fyp page filled with videos immediately agreeing or cheering whatever the Chinese gov has decided their agenda is this month. And of course you need to go hunting to find the mildest of criticism of Chinese gov policies and absolutely nothing on individual high ranking members of CCP.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (3 children)

Is there a reason to care one way or the other about this? Because I haven't been able to come up with one.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yeah there are lots of reasons. Tiktok has been proven to be harvesting browsing habits, biometrics (facial ID and fingerprints), voice identification, key logging, and more.

You are giving your face, fingerprints, and voice to a state sponsored entity in the age of deep fakes and broad sweeping intelligence operations.

If you're pro China, then this is a good thing. If you care about identity theft, deep fakes, or your credentials being sold on the dark web, then tiktok is a Very Bad Thing.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Seems like the big difference between that and Facebook is China. I'm not sure that's a big reason to be concerned specifically about TikTok.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

A US company is held accountable to US law and more importantly, by the US citizens.

If you hand your data to Facebook and they abuse it, there are at least some ways to hold Facebook accountable publicly and financially.

If you hand your data to Chinese sponsored corporations, there is even less accountability.

Make no mistake, all corporations are collecting and exploiting your information, but if you are a US citizen, you should seriously consider not giving persona and biometric data to a foreign power that can't be held accountable.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 6 months ago (2 children)

If you hand your data to Facebook and they abuse it, there are at least some ways to hold Facebook accountable publicly and financially.

You can't possibly believe that. When has Facebook ever been held accountable?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

Google is your friend.

Firstly, the US government has greater authority and ability to fine or otherwise leverage financial action against companies incorporated in the US.

Secondly, Facebook leadership has been repeatedly called to testify in front of Congress for various reasons in recent years, and in doing so has been held accountable for numerous failures. In August of last year they paid out $725 mil in a class action lawsuit. Although not US, still NATO example: In May of 2023 they were fined 1.2b euros for breach of data by the UK.

They were also recently called to testify in front of US congress about the online child exploitation crisis.

Granted they make billions, but they are getting punished for mismanagement, both publicly and financially. It may be a drop in the bucket, so to speak, but it's been enough for them to change their policies and practices over the years.

Action against tiktok is intended to do the same.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Firstly, the US government has greater authority and ability to fine or otherwise leverage financial action against companies incorporated in the US.

But never does it with Facebook and not over gathering data, your reasoning for banning TikTok.

Secondly, Facebook leadership has been repeatedly called to testify in Congress for various reasons in recent years

A slap on the wrist resulting in no significant changes and nothing to do with gathering data.

In August of last year they paid out $725 mil in a class action lawsuit.

Not the U.S. government. You could have the same lawsuit against TikTok.

Although not US, still NATO example

Irrelevant, other NATO countries are not currently trying to ban TikTok.

They were also recently called to testify in front of US congress about the online child exploitation crisis.

As above, a slap on the wrist resulting in no significant changes. Also, nothing to do with exploitation of data.

they are getting punished for mismanagement, both publicly and financially.

Slaps on the wrist are not punishment and they are not being punished for gathering data. They also make more revenue every single year. They haven't lost any money.

It may be a drop in the bucket, so to speak, but it’s been enough for them to change their policies and practices over the years.

They have not changed any of their data gathering policies except to make them so that they can gather more data.

Stop changing the subject. You said TikTok is getting banned by the government for data gathering. I told you Facebook is not being punished by the government for doing the same thing. All you can do is sue them. Just like you could sue TikTok if you could get a case together.

You have not showed me to be incorrect.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

At this point I am choosing to no longer engage in this conversation. Your counter arguments seem to convey so little comprehension (willful or unwitting) that I feel engaging further would not meaningfully contribute to the discussions held in this thread moving forward.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm not surprised since you demonstrated very clearly that Facebook has not been punished by the U.S. government for data gathering despite TikTok getting punished for doing the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

They aren't punishing either one for data gathering. It's pretty clear that the powers that be deem that acceptable. The punishments (and whether you think it's valid or not, FB has been punished) are for what each does or can do with that data. Facebook has legal limits on that. China has no legal obligation to adhere to those.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Facebook has, as far as I know, never been punished by the U.S. for data gathering.

I also don't believe they are not allowed to sell data to all foreign countries and companies. Would congress be this upset if Bytedance was a French company? Or even a Saudi company?

I'm no fan of China and I don't want them harvesting data in other countries, but the genie is way, way, way out of the bottle at this point and congress coming down hard on a single company won't do a thing. This is performative bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/news/2023/12-billion-euro-fine-facebook-result-edpb-binding-decision_en

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Sorry... your evidence that Facebook would be held accountable in America, unlike TikTok, is a fine they were levied in Europe?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

"when has Facebook ever been held accountable?"

There you go. I'm not going to chase goalposts.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Context is key. We're talking about the U.S. government. I think it was clear to most people that I was talking about being accountable to the U.S. government.

Do I really have to type out everything in very great detail for you to understand what I'm talking about?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

We are talking about accountability.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes, very good, your amazing gotcha showed me how I'm a fool.

Now, do you have anything to say about what is actually being discussed- namely, the U.S. government taking action on TikTok but not on Facebook despite Facebook doing the same data harvesting?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (1 children)

See, that's another goal post moved. No, thanks.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

I'm not sure how trying to talk about the thing I've been trying to talk about this whole time is goalpost moving, unless you mean moving it back to where I was, but it seems to me like you had nothing actually worth contributing and decided to troll. I hope you enjoyed yourself.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

Sure thing, buddy.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

It's just classic moral panic. Our politicians really want us to hate China when it's like, nah bruh I hate Microsoft.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

I wouldn't call this "classic moral panic". I would characterize it as our nations leaders demanding that Tiktok revisit their data collection practices in the interest of protecting US citizens.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago

If politicians actually have a shit about protecting US citizens data, they'd push for legislation to protect US citizens data from all data harvesting apps. Instead "china bad, ban".

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

If politicians cared about privacy they would be passing a law that inhibits Meta AND Tiktok. American industries get away with simmiliar level of BS, but privacy isn't a concern to American politicians so long as it's American eyes watching.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

If politicians care one iota about privacy they'd be limiting and regulating what the government itself, some thing they have total control over, can aquire as data.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Yes. It's not great that they're banning a mass communication app. Tiktok is very often used for political communication and while I might support limiting the power of corporations in our political communication I don't support the consolidation into even fewer hands.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Well, they're not banning the app but foreign ownership. I wish they were targeting the data scraping practices, but then that'd hit US companies, too...

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 months ago (2 children)

See I honestly think it's because they're so old that they genuinely don't understand that issue

They're going after TikTok because foreign ownership of a National Security related industry gives them Red Scare flashbacks

Most of the leadership are people who went through the Cuba-Turkey missile crisis, and it fucking shows, you could show these people a hello world program and they'd think it was hacking.

Don't run yourself ragged worrying about malicious intent when plain old incompetence suffices Occam's Razor

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

The average politicians may not present themselves as being smart, but the lobbyists, think tanks, advisors that interact with them and influence their behaviour are not dumb. Rather than assuming it's either malice or ignorance, we can instead opt for a more middle ground assumption: it's both malice and ignorance, symbiotically feeding off each other.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

Congress people are paid to be ignorant and lobbyists are paid to keep them that way.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 months ago

No, no, no! Ted Stephens got them all up to speed with his famous "Dump Trucks and Tubes" educational lecture. Now they're all experts.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 6 months ago (1 children)

Ok you can have tiktok but we get to ban reddit

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 months ago

I love the premade signs they handed out and you just fill in what you do on tik tok lol