this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024

205 points (91.2% liked)

News

23664 readers

3564 users here now

Welcome to the News community!

Rules:

1. Be civil

Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.

2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.

Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.

3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.

Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.

4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.

Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.

5. Only recent news is allowed.

Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.

6. All posts must be news articles.

No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.

7. No duplicate posts.

If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.

8. Misinformation is prohibited.

Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.

9. No link shorteners.

The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.

10. Don't copy entire article in your post body

For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.

founded 2 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

205

Many believe the founders wanted a Christian America. Some want the government to declare one now (apnews.com)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

74 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The idea of a Christian America means different things to different people. Pollsters have found a wide circle of Americans who hold general God-and-country sentiments.

But within that is a smaller, hardcore group who also check other boxes in surveys — such as that the U.S. Constitution was inspired by God and that the federal government should declare the U.S. a Christian nation, advocate Christian values or stop enforcing the separation of church and state.

For those embracing that package of beliefs, it’s more likely they’ll have unfavorable views toward immigrants, dismiss or downplay the impact of anti-Black discrimination and believe Trump was a good or great president, according to a 2021 Pew Research Center survey.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] Reverendender 164 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (7 children)

They LITERALLY WROTE DOWN that they did not want this. WTAF?

1. The Establishment Clause: Found in the First Amendment, it states, “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.” This clause prohibits the federal government from establishing a state religion or favoring one religion over another. It has been interpreted to mean that there should be a separation of church and state, preventing the government from promoting or endorsing religious beliefs or practices. 2. The Free Exercise Clause: Also in the First Amendment, this clause says, “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.” This means that the government cannot pass laws that target specific religious practices or beliefs and cannot hinder individuals from practicing their religion freely.

[–] [email protected] 76 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Bold of you to expect any of these idiots to have paid attention in grade school history classes.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

What is this history you speak of?

[–] [email protected] 51 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Also "We the people...." It's a rejection of God.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

I always heard the argument that the founders did not want a Christian based nation because they saw the chaos in the UK with Catholics fighting Protestants, vice versa and every time a monarch ascended from the opposite side it was the axe for you all of a sudden.

They were probably mostly Christian though, at least outwardly, and so wrote the constitution with Christianity informs ideals and morals.

That said, separation of church and state is a good thing. Anyone arguing they actually wanted a Christian nation is intentionally ignorant (or a fucking idiot).

So idk if "we the people" is intentionally rejecting God as much as it's rejecting the king.

[–] [email protected] 53 points 10 months ago (3 children)

They were probably mostly Christian though

Most of them, at least the ones most responsible for drafting the Constitution, were deists, as was common for intellectuals during the Enlightenment. Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Monroe were all deists. They generally accepted that Jesus existed and he brought great wisdom of the world but they also questioned his divinity. And even the professed Christians, like Adams, were heavily influenced by progressive Unitarian principles, which did not believe in religious supremacy over government.

Jefferson was so unconvinced of Christ's divinity that he edited the New Testament down to what he considered to be the wisdom and took out all of the supernatural elements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

This (Jefferson Bible) seems like an important fact for me not to have known until now. Thanks!

But, don’t forget your side of Jesus with your politics. We are, after all, a “Christian nation.” Also, I hate the world.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I knew a lot of this but this is the first I've heard of the Jefferson Bible! Thanks for sharing!

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago

Here's some ammo for you- https://liberalamerica.org/2014/10/27/88-founding-father-quotes-that-will-enrage-the-religious-right/

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

TIL!

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

Also...

Both Jefferson and fellow Virginian James Madison felt that state support for a particular religion or for any religion was improper.

Madison, Alexander Hamilton, and John Jay were the three main authors of the Constitution.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 10 months ago

They clearly can't read the Bible, what makes you think they can read anything else?

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 70 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Why is apnews validating these lies? The constitution is very clear.

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 57 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I'm Jewish. My daughter is Jewish and queer. This shit terrifies me.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Somewhere a republican just had an aneurysm.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Just one? That's... okay. I guess.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Hmmm. Maybe talk her into becoming a teacher or a librarian? That might up the body count.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I think her librarian mother would love that, but at this stage, I think she'll be an artist because that's where her talents lie (at 13 anyway).

The thing that has made me sad and I've tried to steer her away from is that she has said a couple of times that she thinks she should go to a business school so she can make a lot of money. Her mother and I both decided that being happy was far more important than making money. We were pretty poor for a while because of it, but we were not very stressed because we were happy in the thing we spent all day doing. And now we're doing fine. I've had jobs that paid better, but out of my wheelhouse that were so stressful that I started doing things like developing bad dandruff.

I absolutely believe that doing what makes you happy is far more important than doing what makes you wealthy and I really want to pass that value on to her. Especially if she thinks that working for some soul-crushing corporation is the path she should take in life.

load more comments (3 replies)

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] [email protected] 56 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Many incorrectly believe the founders wanted a Christian America. AP should know better than to make it seem like that is an opinion.

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Which flavor of Christianity?

There's like 12 churches within a mile radius of my house, each a different denomination. They all seem to hate each other.

It's not that I don't fear an attempt to institute a national theocracy (I do), I just think (and hope) that the infighting on what brand will keep them fighting among themselves before they can do any real damage.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Evangelists. The worst of the worst.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Actually I'd put Pentacostals at the top of that list 'cause they're the ones causing most of the issues ... mainly a push to fundamentalism that is no different than what Iran is currently doing.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Or it results in a holy war worse than any civil war as factions fight in their god's name. I mean I hope that doesn't happen, but I'm not going to say it can't.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] [email protected] 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Please watch God Forbid the sex scandal that shocked America (hulu)

Shiny happy people (prime)

The family (netflix)

Even if the "smaller hard-core group" sounds inconsequential, a lot of those people are the ones with power and/or influence.

I think there is a fourth I've seen that covers similar grounds and forget atm, plus I'm sure many more that I don't know so please respond if you know others. As you may notice all mine are drastically different subjects on the surface. They have the common thread though of fundamental religious men in power AND the institutions being involved in American politics.

There's no gay agenda. There is ABSOLUTELY a Christian agenda.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There is a gay agenda if you consider wanting to be treated like humans an agenda.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Oh shit... THAT is what they want? Fuck that's deplorable

[–] [email protected] 20 points 10 months ago

Say no to theocracy!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

meanwhile the white people who aren't retarded are all facepalming and going "look around, you stupid fuck". It's been an overtly christian nation for fucking ever now and that you don't have your sharia law equivalent here is a testament to the structure imposed by the founding fathers, and not the diarrhea you've covered it in. I wonder if they realize there are liberals just about as ready to kill them as they are to kill us. Probably not, "realization" is a magic word to the see no evil crowd.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago

This article reads like Fox News click bait unsourced trash.

“Some are saying…”

“Many…”

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago

So every church and its earnings go to the State… And Social Welfare programs become more widespread… And housing the homeless is now law… Lying during your campaign is an immediate expulsion from public office..

What else would make these fascists turn tail and reconsider?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah these are the same folks arguing that if the authors of sec 3 of the 14th amendment wanted to specifically prevent a former president that engaged in insurrection they would have, so we can conclude they didn't want that. So, if they had every opportunity to write religion into the constitution and didn't do it, what now?

Then when you notice that they specifically wrote in the first amendment the establishment clause- and then you realize that Jefferson explained its purpose to be creating a wall of separation between church and state, what now again?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

They don't care about internally consistent logic. If they did they wouldn't be religious.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

For those embracing that package of beliefs, it’s more likely they’ll have unfavorable views toward immigrants, dismiss or downplay the impact of anti-Black discrimination and believe Trump was a good or great president, according to a 2021 Pew Research Center survey.

Immigrants from Latin America are very likely to be Christian and so are Black Americans.

"But we don't want those kinds of Christians!"

🤔

[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago

Donald Trump and his g̵o̵o̵n̵s̵ ̵loons stechschritting toward Gilead. smh

[–] [email protected] 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Many? No, not many, just a very loud minority.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments