If fascists could read they'd be very upset
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They like him because they want to LARP as a reckless, vengeance seeking gunslinger who eliminates anyone who they feel has wronged them or who is "wrong". As in so many other circumstances, they've missed the point and the intended message.
The ol' Walter White/Rick Sanchez/Joker/Patrick Batemen "hes literally me fr fr" but for adult men doing an actual job. It'd be cringey if they weren't in a position of authority.
Still pretty cringey tbh. The fact that there's so many people (mostly white men) who run around fantasizing about gunning down people they disagree with is sad, and terrifying. It's a whole subculture of violence obsessed gun nuts with a victim complex and low self esteem.
Rick & Morty this season really turned a corner with how they interpret Rick and how truly lonely/shitty his life can be because of his very serious personality flaws. Big fan of what they’re doing. Lots of self reflection on the show, more nuanced debates about rick and morty’s (toxic) relationship somehow despite how often it’s brought up, strong mirrors back on the audience. It’s strong stuff
The punisher is a murdering lawless maniac but I don't think he's a fascist, is he?
Punisher 2099 was fascist (Wouldn't kill cops, and became part of Doom 2099's regime when he took over America.) but Frank Castle Punisher (A.k.a. the one we know.)? Pretty much equal opportunity murderer of criminals and baddies.
I don't think that makes him fascist, just a broken person with twisted morals attempting to do good (in his mind). IIRC, he makes no attempt to push his morals beyond himself.
In fact, doesn't he specifically tell people not to be like him?? That's very much NOT fascie behavior.
Idk, a lot of fascist ideology revolves around a single person being able to save society via strength and commitment. Instead of society being able to enact meaningful changes through the proper means, we need someone who can cut through the bureaucracy and just take out the "bad guys".
Unfortunately a lot of western writing reinforces the belief that individual greatness can overcome even the most difficult situations. This isn't saying that all western authors are fascist, rather that most of the stories we tell require a first person perspective for us to resonate with it.
This is why the most popular propaganda films in Nazi Germany weren't films like triumph of the will, but instead were films like The Lives of a Bengal Lancer and Gabriel Over the Whitehouse.
A fascist is someone who supports a single strong leader with total control of the nation. 'Dictator' was an actual position in the Roman Republic; the people could vote to give one man absolute power for a period of time. Makes sense if you're dealing with a natural disaster or invasion and don't have time to go through the usual channels. Fascism became popular in the chaos of the post WW1 era. Things were changing rapidly, and conservatives wanted to rein in the 'undesirables.' Ironically, the Communist Russian Revolution was a huge spur to the creation of numerous fascist parties across Europe.
Frank Castle, the Punisher, is not a fascist. He isn't interested in taking power for himself, and doesn't want a dictator. He often speaks of having the greatest respect for Captain America, the guy who always chooses the side of liberty and fair play. Frank knows that he's a criminal and a murderer. He just doesn't care. IMHO if he and the Joker were both locked up and unable to kill each other, the two would get along fine.
I don't really see how he could be construed as one, other than the kneejerk "fascism is when bad things".
The whole point is that he's not like cops.
Last time I went through US customs the agent checking me had his backpack behind him with a punisher patch (plus a thin blue line one, because of course he did). Gotta use true fashy believers to check all them damn immigrants and all that...
Thin blue line is a gang symbol. We need to normalize asking people with thin blue line bullshit why they're flying gang symbols.
I’ve occasionally seen the black and white American flag with one red line instead of the blue one. Apparently it’s meant to show support for paramedics and firefighters. I wish that one was more popular.
Yeah, you really only see those often if you know firefighters/EMTs it seems.
The way they cropped it, they leave out the best part. Here's the full interaction. 4 pages from Punisher #13:
Yeah, the whole bit about how they should be looking up to Captain America as a role model is the most important part.
He's definitely a lawless murderer, and the types of cops that display his insignia certainly seem to lean fascist, but what makes the Punisher fascist?
I think in this case "fascist" means "anything I don't like." You know, like "socialism".
Believes might makes right? But I read the headline here that he's a fascist-murderer not a Fascist who is a murderer
Here's the full comic scene so you don't need to skim through the whole article to get the bits and pieces of it.
There's a saying I first heard from cops in my country and then later saw pop up in several TV shows, the last one clear in memory being The Rookie.
The saying embodies that whenever cops decide to group together to the point of getting a symbol or name for said group, it's only a matter of time before they go to jail.
In corrupt countries, they may not actually go to jail, but the point is that whenever cops do this, criminality will always ensue.
I don’t know where the US fits in your consideration of corruption but cops very rarely go to jail here, even (especially?) when they form up around a symbol. Here’s one example: the long-lived murderous LA Sheriff’s Department gangs. https://knock-la.com/tradition-of-violence-lasd-gang-history/
I saw a Don't Tread on Me sticker right next to a Thin Blue Line sticker the other day (on the back of a giant fuck-off Ford truck, of course) and was like "that dude needs to make up his fuckin' mind."
"Tread harder, daddy!" seems more like it
The image is kind of wrong. The punisher does not hate cops. He doesn’t like cops that celebrate what he does.
I have read a lot of punisher over the years, and the thing that always infuriates me is how much handwringing there is by some of the writers that always ends up backsliding into “but it’s still pretty cool that he murders people with his super cool guns and a skull on his chest.” The only way to truly break from that image is to completely abandon who the punisher is and enter a new phase entirely that does not regress again. It needs to be like God of War 4. Kratos is not the same person he once was. Yes he is capable of violence, but he clearly does not relish it and does everything he can to avoid conflict as well as truly tries to teach his son that actions have consequences. He has had a spiritual change, essentially, and it is reflected in his actions and demeanor. No, he has not mastered it, no it is not perfect, but he is consistently trying to be better and grow. I cannot say the same for Frank Castle. It always becomes “…but I have to” when he’s barely tried anything else as he then instigates conflict.
Brief moments of “the punisher is actually kind of bad y’all“ that is always surrounded by constant firearm fetishization and glorifying murder/masculinity is just not convincing. No amount of little moments of clarity can fix that.
It's like all those non-Catholic Christians who display Crusader symbols. They are forgetting that the Crusaders would have murdered believers like them in a heartbeat. Plus the Crusaders probably killed more Christians than Muslims and Jews, since the Muslim conquerors would force the local Christian population to fight on their side.
The Christians, at least during the 3rd crusade fought because they knew the crusaders would murder them despite being Christian. King Richard 'the lion heart' had entire towns brutally murdered for mere convenience. Christians looked to Saladin since he was their refuge from the europeans and when he sacked cities didnt banish or commit genocide. Saladin ended up losing his support in the end because he limited his army from pillaging.
Is he fascist?
I don't read a lot of punisher comics.
To be perfectly clear about my experience with this character, I have watched the thomas jane punisher movie, which is a straight up vengeance movie.
But I never got the impression the punisher was fascist.
He doesn't seem like a pro-dictatorship kind of guy.
Is he, in the comics?
Did one of us misread? Title says fascist murderer like I took it as he kills them.
Grammar is funny that way it could be interpreted your way or it could be interpreted as "fascist who murders"
No he's not. The point is that cops wearing his symbol are fucking idiots. The punisher is a lawless vigilante who hates cops. Cops - an organization created to enforce laws - have no business wearing the symbol of a lawless vigilante, and they're stupid idiots for wearing the symbol of one that hates their whole organization.
He doesn't hate cops. He fully buys the thin blue line bullcrap for "the good ones."
He hates cops that would try to do what he does.
The Punisher is a monster whose only redeeming feature is that he preys on those worse than him.
Cops are some of the biggest fan boys out there. The movie 'The French Connection*' inspired them to wear Popeye's hat and ankle holster. Magnum PI inspired them to grow mustaches. The TV show Hill Street Blues got them wearing turtlenecks.
*If you haven't seen it, watch 'The French Connection.' Great New York locations, Oscar winning actors, and one of the best car chases ever filmed.
Co-opting stuff isn’t about understanding.