this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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This is really nitpicky. When there is war, there is anti-war protest.
Yeah these guys weren't anti war. They were pro Hitler.
Kind of like the GOP is pro Putin.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/emma-goldman-preparedness-the-road-to-universal-slaughter
"Forty years ago Germany proclaimed the slogan: “Germany above everything. Germany for the Germans, first, last and always. We want peace; therefore we must prepare for war. Only a well armed and thoroughly prepared nation can maintain peace, can command respect, can be sure of its national integrity.” And Germany continued to prepare, thereby forcing the other nations to do the same. The terrible European war is only the culminating fruition of the hydra-headed gospel, military preparedness. "
She's absolutely right. And she identifies the core problem too. It only takes one country. So we're trapped by the prisoner's dilemma. There is a multiverse slice out there somewhere where Democracy solved these issues because proponents of military build ups were voted out everywhere. But it's not our universe. As long as there's a state building hard power to fuck with other countries we're all trapped.
Democracy governing with good sense and moral integrity? That sounds a lot like entropy reversing itself. Possible in theory, but requires access to an infinite number of random universes to actually witness.
you seem to be trapped in the dilemma of picking up a flag when fighting against something.
Are you suggesting we need military preparedness in case of non state organizations?
That'd be the libertarian approach.
Eh, military unpreparedness, to compare, leads to becoming a victim.
And (some) democracy, (relative) equality and all that (including trade and peaceful life being perceived as something more honorable than conquest) in Europe were historically spearheaded by United Provinces, Hanseatic cities and all those guys who were militarily prepared.
Because Germany, as well as any other european state at that time, was a genocidal maniac who shouldn't be trusted with guns. However the Germany of today is far removed from those times and rivalries. And we're not even talking about Germany, but the EU as a whole. We are talking about Europe, was a community of states, providing the protection themselves that they enjoyed by the US in the past.
For Iraq, the anti-war protests were really popular.
When France told the truth about the whole situation at the UN, the whole US population was right behind them and protested en masse in the streets.
Or maybe I misremember...
The only thing I remember is a bunch of restaurant owners changed french fries to freedom fries. I also was living in a fairly rural (redneck) area at the time. Depending on how long they stayed "Freedom Fries" really spoke volumes about the type, and quality, of the food that was served.
Up for a short amount of time: Food is probably fine. Restaurant owner was bandwagoning and probably didn't want to alienate his clientele.
Up for several months to a year: More likely to be greasy spoon type place. The food is probably okay with only a smallish (5-10%) chance of explosive diarrhea after eating there.
Up for 1-2 years: Literally every menu item has gravy on it somehow. You could probably order a piece if dry white bread it would come pre-soaked in gravy. You have about a 50/50 chance of shitting your brains out after eating here
Still "Freedom Frying" 2-3 years on: These places serve rat meat. It's the only explanation for how they are in business. Expect everything to have a weird taste like stale Marlboros. The people that own/work in the restaurant couldn't collectively come up with a full set of teeth combined. Food poisoning is part of the experience.
"Fredum Frys" in 2024: This is front. You should not ever eat here. You will most likely get food poisoning from walking in the front door. Those french fries are actually surplus from the Iraq invasion. They make meth in the back and their cook has a loaded pistol sitting on the counter.
Story time: I went to an Iraq War protest back in the day. Some people wandered out of the protest zone and (to be completely fair, I didn't see what started the altercation) got their asses beat by the cops. One brave kid stood out from the crowd and said, "Come on, guys! We have to help them!" We all looked at each other and were like, "Uh... no." The brave lad then charged in and promptly got his ass beat by the cops. The war still happened.
Holy shit Americans are lame. No wonder your country sucks so much. In the civilised world that would've been a full on brawl, and they'd have burnt down the police station later for good measure.
I mean the French are constantly protesting/rioting but their police still brutalize protesters, rioters and innocent bystanders like it's a sport for them.
Yeah for sure, cops suck in France too. But at least they fight back a bit.
Behold the native Internet Tough Guy in his comfortable habitat. From his keyboard, he is a great warrior. His hypothetical contributions to the history of war are legendary.
That's not really a relevant criticism, I'm not talking about anything out of the ordinary. Plenty of not very tough people (like me) go to protests, but people are tougher when they are united. The idea that a protest would stick to some zone, or that people wouldn't try to help each other against the cops, is super sad. It makes you think they don't really believe in the thing they are protesting for at all.
This really seems to depend on the society, say, French seem to have that healthy rioting culture where people would do as he says.
Honestly, if you don't look out for each other it seems to defeat the whole point of an organized protest. I can spread the word on my own in a safe space without fear of organized retaliatory violence.
Sure, why not
(I get* that it's a joke but what worries me is that it's actually said candidly, and worse, sometimes I myself think stuff like that. It might be just or moral (debatable), but it sure as fuck isn't civilized)
(*read: hope)
I’ll let you lead the charge into the riot police.
Yeah, I mean the Vietnam war wasn't without protest, and nor was the Gulf.
Always hard to know which side of history they're going to be on though. Some wars are justified. You don't want to be the guy holding the Hitler Did Nothing Wrong sign when the guy from down the road is sifting for teeth in a pile of ash.
God knows I protested the 2001-2020 invasions. I'm getting too old to protest constantly. It doesn't help that 2020 is/was the neverending year