308
👉wiki
Instructions: There are 72 objects on the table that one can use on me as desired.
Performance: I am the object. During this period I take full responsibility.
Duration: 6 hours (8pm–2am.) Studio Morra, Naples
this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
308 points (92.1% liked)
Today I Learned
17874 readers
120 users here now
What did you learn today? Share it with us!
We learn something new every day. This is a community dedicated to informing each other and helping to spread knowledge.
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with TIL. Linking to a source of info is optional, but highly recommended as it helps to spark discussion.
** Posts must be about an actual fact that you have learned, but it doesn't matter if you learned it today. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.**
Rule 2- Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.
Your post subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-TIL posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-TIL posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you vocally harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Wow she stood still while someone slashed her throat to drink her blood. That’s commitment.
The stuff they did boggles my mind such as cutting her with thorns, sexual assault. I don’t understand do they think because it’s “art” it isn’t a fucked up thing to do to a person?
I wonder if it’s supposed to be part of the “art” - to show how depraved humans can be given a chance to do it scot-free.
Pretty sure that is literally the point of this.
I always felt like this was the whole point of the performance
Yeah, that's pretty much the point of this sort of endurance art.
Bro. Artists can be very edgy. Sculptures of naked people, paintings of people fucking, I bet there is some piece made out of rubber vaginas somewhere.
I don't justify what people did to her, but you bet she knew what it was going to happen, even the thorn part. Otherwise, she would have stopped with the performance right there and there.
Edit: she even made a gun and a bullet available to the public!! I'd rather think it was a blank, but if it wasn't, then yeah....
Edit 2: Ok, I take it back! People are fucked up indeed: "When the gallery announced the work was over, and Abramović began to move again, she said the audience left, unable to face her as a person."
I agree she was prepared for it and expected it but still fucked. She didn’t tell them to be cruel…she just said they were allowed to. Reminds me of the Stanford prison experiment where you kind of give people a tacit permission to be evil…so they do and then we are confronted with the aftermath. I just can’t imagine I could cause someone’s skin to bleed purposefully and not feel awful…
Not the same but related…this guy was shot as an art piece
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoot_(Burden)
The Stanford prison experiment couldn't be replicated and the data are widely considered useless in psychologist community. Basically someone wanted to be famous so they created a shocking but fake study.
If I correctly remember my psychology lessons from 10+ years ago though, the results of Milgram's experiment has been reproduced countless times which sort of backs up the original point.
What is the original point?
Just get any warehouse or factory in UK where the moment somebody steps up as middle management they start being ultra evil to the employees who are too weak to do anything as they're bound by visas etc.
I've seen it happen so many times, at some point I've been offered a job position and they told me "yeah the salary is not attactuve but you get to yell at "pakis" all day"
Like what the fuck
The Stanford Prison Experiment was a sham and couldn't be replicated.
This Art project still seems gruesome....
There was no experiment. There was a LARP, in which the GM explicitly instructed the players to be abusive to one another. So they did. After a couple days of this bullshit, the GM's girlfriend made him stop the game.
It wasn't so much a sham as it was a gigantic mess, and that's the lesson. Zimbardo conducted one hell of a mess that had to be ditched less than halfway through and was only ditched because a grad student of his came in and was appalled by what he was letting happen as part of his "role" as the warden. He'd gotten directly involved in the study and as a result fucked it all up.
No shit she knew what they were going to do. That was the point. She was making a point about how inhumane people become when they think there are no consequences for their actions.
I knew this as well. I was just answering the parent poster since he seemed quite shocked by human nature.
Even if the gun was loaded with a blank, at any distance where she can be the one holding it (assuming it's aimed at her) a blank would still do serious damage. When a blank is fired, solid propellant typically is ejected as well as ignited propellant and metal shavings. Too close and a blank is almost like birdshot.
Brandon Lee was killed by a blank on the set of The Crow, wasn't he?
According to Wikipedia there was a squib load in the barrel, which was then pushed out by a blank round. So he was effectively shot, but the blank pushed out a bullet that was lodged in the barrel.
Thanks.
You're assuming a full-strength blank, like they use in Hollywood. It could be a round with little/no powder. That would show if someone fired, but would not actually be capable of harm.
Even just a primer going off with no powder or bullet could cause serious injury or death, if the gun was held against your head.
Well, there is the Great Wall of Vagina(s).
so I realize this is probably a controversial take, but is it really sexual assault in this case. She did consent to „everything“ basically
It's a controversial take that has been the subject of all sorts of debate and even legislation. Some countries don't accept sweeping consent legally for anything, some people/groups think consent must be sought, etc.
Ya, some things come to mind I'd normally call victim blaming but she basically invited people to fuck with her. If being assaulted in multiple ways didn't cross her mind she was living in a fantasy world. Groups of people are terrible, the larger the group the more terrible they are. One person will push a boundary and then another will take it further, so on and so forth until it's just.... Mob mentality is a real thing and it's not when you see the best of humanity.
I mean - that's the point though, right?
She probably knew it would be bad, it went further than she expected. It's still art.
Like how you climb a mountain, it goes bad, you lose a hand but survive, no (sane) person is like, "good."
The point of this art is to show what humans become when they reduce a fellow person to an object.
Every person that harmed her in any way is fundamentally a bad person, but also shares a quality with all of us in that we can all choose to become that person at any time.
The goal of art like this is to get people to reflect upon these innate mentalities, not hopeful denial of their existence.
She did not explicitly state that she was OK with being touched sexually. Nor did she say she was OK being cut. She said anything goes but I believe monkey paw rules of language apply here. I would argue that the whole point here is that different people take the "permission" to different levels. I personally would never do anything to someone that I would not want done to myself unless and perhaps not even if they gave explicit permission. Here only implicit permission is given and the audience decided how far it went. Your point might have stood if there was some explicitly stated agreement that asexual acts are ok, but frankly I believe it is clear here that it does count as a violation at minimum.
I dunno. I admire the idealism in your attitude here, but realistically we have to look at the words she herself used: "Instructions: There are 72 objects on the table that one can use on me as desired. Performance: I am the object. During this period I take full responsibility."
It strikes me that this quite explicitly states that there are no limits. I'm honestly somewhat surprised that she wasn't more seriously assaulted.
but why do anything like that if she clearly didn't ask for that. Like if my mate comes over and I say "my es su casa, have free reign of the place" and he immeditaly shits on my couch I'm going to be pissed, like that's a shitty thing to do, even if I did "technically" say he could, doesn't mean you should.
Because when you invite someone over, there's the additional context that they are your guest and should behave as such.
During this performance art piece, that additional context does not exist. The only context is that provided by the artist, which did not set such limits.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. She didn't set any limits and told them to do what they wanted to her. Amazing it wasn't worse in the end.
I agree but only in the most cold technical sense. That isn't what consent is supposed to look like though. If someone verbally consents but looks uncomfortable you should have the slightest shred of empathy to check in on them or wonder if they feel pressured to consent for whatever reason.
Oh, 100%. In any other context, consent is–or should be–an ongoing event. I'm just not sure that applies in the context of endurance art.
They are doing it because they can.
It probably means that they would do that to anyone is they know there will be no repercussions. Like someone who is passed out drunk or a child.
I can't believe how there wasn't a single person in the audience who tried to stop anyone. Other than the person who took the gun away from her head. Still. No one stopped the people trying to injure or assault her. No one called anyone out? It's sickening.
Yeah, that's not what's written in the Wikipedia article.