this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2023
476 points (90.3% liked)
World News
32047 readers
494 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I’d rather be under the rule of a hegemony that is composed of many different cultures and in the process of healing than one who is still actively genociding their minorities.
EDIT: Welp, I guess there is no war in Ba Sing Se. Ya'll are expert brigaders, well done.
Less than 10% of Native Americans can speak their native language. How many Uighers and Tibetans can speak theirs?
Have you been to a reservation? I remember one that we drove through in Arizona, the Hualapai. It wasn't just a desert, but a salt flat, utterly devoid of vegetation. Along the road, you had dilapidated pre-fabs, occupied of course by the victims that had been placed here. Not all reservations are as harrowing. I've visited the Navajo Nation, as well as Lakota and Ute reservations. Poverty is intense, and people do the best they can, but the reality is that these people had their lands stolen from them and were forced to the most marginal places in US, unsuitable for much agriculture and barely suitable for ranching.
There is no healing in these places, rather the victims of genocide are constantly blamed for their own poverty by the settler communities stole their land. The native peoples were devastated by covid due to the lack of healthcare resources as well.
Let's look at the Black American community as well. It was just 3 years ago that the US had its largest protest movement in history against the police killings of unarmed Black men. And what was the response by the government and media? After a moment of groveling, to take back all promises of reform and instead funnel even more money to an increasingly militarized police force, and to engage in a panicked sensationalized crime wave reportage. Police killings continue (1 in 20 homicides are perpetrated by the police), and the economic situation hasn't improved much for Black Americans since the Great Recession lead to a massive seizure of Black household wealth.
The situation in the US isn't healing, it's an oozing pustulate sore. There has been a failure to reinforce voting rights, and anything like reparations, even just targeted relief, is considered a joke and a non-starter in the halls of power. The only healing is in the minds of libs that think that donning Kente cloth and watching Black Panther constitutes absolution.
This of course is to say nothing of the murderous wars waged by the US in Iraq, Laos, Vietnam and elsewhere, and the genocides it co-sponsored in Guatamala and Indonesia. Or the general neo-colonial global financial mechanisms that lock the third world into permanent debt traps and underdevelopment.
If we pretend that what the USA does to its own people is acceptable, you still have to consider what it does to the rest of the world. I'm sorry, but in light of all the evidence, I see the US hegemony as evil. I also doubt the western media's portrayal of the Uyghur "genocide" and I don't agree that China is in the process of a Holocaust against its own people.
I'm lucky enough to have a job that puts me in contact with a lot of countries all over the global south of the world, and the general opinion from all of them is that China is a lot better prospect than old Western imperialism.
The Chinese propaganda made to counter the satellite images, testimony from victims, and video evidence consists of some YouTubers visiting the same handful of uncomfortably smiling Uyghur families under the careful eye of Chinese censors and fluff pieces that amount to “nuh-uh”.
China is trying to erase the culture of people within their borders, again, and there is a long tradition of this forced assimilation in China. They are not pluralistic, and don't want to be, and their attitude towards non-chinese within their borders lead me to have very low expectations on how they will treat minorities outside.
If a grainy satellite photo that could be of literally anything and random testimony is your standard of evidence please stay the fuck away from any position of authority, everywhere.
China has 56 different major ethinicities and 5 different autonomous regions. The only racist here is you, for believing this shit and knowing nothing about the country. The two fastest growing ethnicities in China are Tibetan followed by Uighur.
"Chinese" is not an ethnicity you racist dumbass. It is a nationality. They are all Chinese.
Is it just one grainy satellite footage? I was under the impression it was a series of images documenting the construction and expansion of detention centers located suspiciously near the population that has been complaining about being disappeared to detention centers. I also thought there are very clear ground-level pictures, showing thousands Uyghur in blue jumpsuits.
Is the testimony random? I thought it was testimony was mostly from Uyghurs from the affected area, with credible stories that line up with other witnesses and victims that were also questioned.
You will deny this is true because it is crucial for your reality that it is false. Nothing the US is currently doing is a fucked up as what China is doing in terms of racism and ethnic suppression.
from https://redsails.org/masses-elites-and-rebels/
Many grainy satellite photos vs 1 grainy satellite photo is really not much of a different.
No the photo you are referring to is of a prisoner movement between two prisons. You're being showed photos and people are telling you they're X when they're actually Y.
There's about 30, and almost always extremely sus circumstances surrounding them. Meanwhile we have literally thousands of videos of tourists readily available, right now, of people visiting the area and having conversations. Who do you believe here? People IN XINJIANG or people outside it?
Look. Let me give you some food for thought on this from another angle. Let's look at another country where know REAL oppression is taking place, Israel, which has more money and a far smaller country mileage area to spend that money. Israel is an apartheid state actively murdering and oppressing the Palestinians with the intent of stealing their land and eliminating them. https://reddit.com/r/israelexposed is what this looks like.
The evidence against Israel is insurmountable. Mountains of it. Hundreds of thousands of actual video of actual shit. Real evidence.
In a country where literally everyone owns a smartphone it is impossible to prevent the creation of this evidence. Even with more resources and a smaller surface area to stop this shit from getting out - Israel can't stop it getting out. But you're trying to say that China can? With fewer resources and a much MUCH larger surface area? They can stop 100% of all evidence from coming out? Just some misrepresented photos that don't actually depict what people claim they depict? Some critical thinking is needed here. Why is there so much evidence in Israel and absolutely zero evidence in China? Don't just turn to the idea that they have an all-powerful state that can somehow be in all places at all times magically preventing even a single video from getting out, that idea is a fantasy and comes from the realm of the delusional. Really THINK about this. Be critical.
The reason the evidence does not exist is because what has been claimed is not accurate.
Now, does that mean that China didn't implement a re-education program? No it doesn't. Does that mean that this wasn't quite a heavy handed measure aimed at stopping terrorism? No it doesn't. It was a really serious undertaking that was certainly a heavy handed use of authority that probably had individual instances of dickwads in that authority acting as dickwads. But, what I am asking you to do is to see through this bullshit genocide crap. It's nonsense. There is no evidence for it and it's not what actually happened. They had a serious string of terrorism, and to stop it they implemented a very large re-education program that people had to attend Monday-Friday (they could go home on weekends). That's what actually happened. No genocide. No mass sterilisation nonsense. No massive repression of religion (other than the extremist one that was committing the terrorism, imported from over the border in Afghanistan).
A good historical parallel is all the brave people who escaped from an in many cases returned to and escaped again from the Nazi death camps to carry intelligence and information to the allies and partisan groups. All the Allied leadership knew about the death camps because photos, maps, and detailed information was being smuggled out regularly. They were visible on aerial surveillance.
Now there are billions of cell phones, the great firewall is as porous as a seive, and there's no evidence of genocide in Xinjiang. Arbitrary arrest and detention? Yeah. A lot of ham-handed cultural programs? Yeah. But genocide? Nothing. And the counter-terrorism progra was wrapped up a few years ago because apparently it was very successful and the threat of Wahhabi insurgents is effectively nil now.
Yeah, bro. There were detention centers. The government was arresting people on pretty sketchy evidence and holding them for 2-3 months without telling their families. And making them sing patriotic songs for some reason. It's in the UN report. It's a violation of the basic right to be free from arbitrary arrest and detention. And it's not genocide. Christ almighty does anyone even know the un report exists?
How could anyone possibly have any doubts in the face of satellite images and eye-witness testimony?
The Iraqi propaganda was hastily produced to justify a war. The Uyghur situation has been uncovered by journalists slowly over decades.
I thought your links would be to any of the dozens of images, articles, and videos on the Uyghur situation. Why not link a debunking of that instead of trying to assert that because lies exist that the Uyghur ethnocide is also a lie. Your argument is weak because facts won't support it.
Since you sound like an expert who has really done your homework here, let’s see some of these stunning pictures you’re talking about and then compare them to photos from America’s prisons. I wonder which will look worse? Doesn’t the USA also lock up far more people per capita than China?
As a point of comparison the US has hands down the most violent and oppressive carceral system in the west by a huge margin, and they can't keep people from broadcasting audio and video from inside the prison even when the pigs have the whole place locked down to hide the atrocities being comitted from the world.
Uncovered over decades? It seems like decades in internet years but the first reports started in 2014, less than 9 years ago.
Damn, I wonder when the US released the last Uyghur detainees from Guantanamo Bay?
It was more too discount the fact that either of those things are conclusive evidence in some way. Idk where you're getting "slowly over decades" from because the entire story is barely 9 years old. All of the "journalism" on the subject is just people regurgitating stuff from Adrian Zenz, a dude claims he was "led by God to fight China" and works for a nonprofit that claims COVID-19 deaths and German WWII casualties count as victims of communism. Hardly a reliable source.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js
this guy doesn't even support china's policy and he will debunk all of this shit for you
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Imagine being from Canada and bleating about China trying to erase the culture of people. Projecting much?
Do a google image search for “Uyghur genocide.” Report back with any interesting images you find. This has been going on for twenty years now, surely there must be some pretty gruesome photos somewhere, comparable at least to the images of the Haitians deported by Biden to make room for Ukrainians in a totally not racist way?
You know the UN wrote a whole-ass report about XinJiang, right?
Source: Adrian Zenz
China has 56 different major ethinicities and 5 different autonomous regions. The only racist here is you, for believing this shit and knowing nothing about the country. The two fastest growing ethnicities in China are Tibetan followed by Uighur.
The Hui people are also a different kind of Muslim living in China but liberals haven’t learned about them yet.
I'd like to live in China too
It's a frontpage post dumbass 💀 we're not brigading we're just commenting on the post that appears on our feeds
Yes, a swarm of tankies from the same instance(hexbear) descending upon the same thread with the same opinions, and spamming images, totally not brigading.
It literally isn't, and if you actually learned how federation works, rather than assuming everything works like reddit, you'd know that
It's a communist instance with very few other instances federated, what the fuck do you expect? The CPC doesn't give a shit about either of us, you aren't involved in some YA dystopia story by posting.
The only spam-like opinions I'm seeing are all the same stale old forms of apologia for the world-strangling US Empire, and the same old stale racism and homophobia from scratched liberals.
They're just a bunch of harmless china apologists. Pretend taiwan isn't a country and they'll leave you alone
So the DPR and LPR are independent countries, right?
"Yes, but if they invite allied troops into their country it stills counts as an invasion of Ukraine. What do you mean that isn't independence? "
Hey now. Don't be mean. We're not apologizing. We're cheerleading. Being the only country in the world to meaningfully reduce extreme poverty is a hell of a thing.
how are the first peoples doing my guy?
Which country are you talking about? The us? CAnada? Australia? There's so many countries actively genociding their minorities you need to narrow it down. Are the French still trying to put the Romani in camps? I haven't looked in to it in a while.
go look for Iraq's missing WMDs