kukkurovaca

See first post in previous thread on the main community: https://sh.itjust.works/post/151703

Not an ideal response to a report, to say the least.

I think they are low hanging fruit that would represent no GREAT loss if chucked, but I also think this is a good chance for everyone here to think deeper about the process for this.

I agree! Kicking these questions to the newly formed "Agora" without defining a process (which was done after there was already substantial discussion on exploding heads which surfaced more than enough material for admin to make a decision IMO) invites this kind of "well shit, let's vote then" thread.

But if the instance is going to be healthy going forward, standards and a process are a must.

The question is not, are there some assholes there, the question is whether the admin/moderators there are operating a right wing extremist troll farm. So for example, is bigotry taken down promptly (or at all) when it's reported? Or is it left up?

I think in this case it's quite easy to say chuck 'em. But there is absolutely a need to discuss standards and a repeatable process for defederation generally, because this certainly won't be the last time it comes up, either way. I started a discussion thread here

Some context: https://embracing.space/@IngaLovinde/110570583214960832

Agreed, I think there are definitely some local rules that instance uses to manage itself internally and some that are also standards that they expect other good neighbors to have as a basic floor on their moderation, and I also agree that the key one is no bigotry.

Created a separate [Discussion] post for general defederation standards.

It will be important to articulate what standards are intended to be applied to instances generally; it's not just about the particularly awful vibes of this particular one. There will be dozens or hundreds more like it, not to mention the spammers and whatnot.

It's not really OP's fault that people are discussing in the replies on top of the extremely comprehensive discussion that's already happened in the other threads.

Aye

Going forward, will be necessary to articulate standards and processes for defederation, to avoid having to relitigate the concepts of free speech, hate speech, etc. every time.

Nay

Also wtf

The best way to ensure that democracy doesn’t spiral into Haiti

You have no right to tell me what I can see and respond to anymore than I have a right to tell you who you can and cannot block.

That's also not what defederating is. Nobody's speech or ability to see speech is being restricted, since we are all free to set up accounts on other instances. Users are making a reasonable request to the instance owner for a normal moderation action that is in line with stated community standards and past defederation decisions (i.e., lemmygrad); the instance owner is free to honor it or not.

The basic question, which every fediverse instance has been having to deal with since inception, is how to draw the line on communities that willingly include bad actors. It has to be drawn somewhere, and where you draw it says a lot.

lol, defederating is not anything like jail

• Federating is like sitting at a big table with a bunch of people in a restaurant.
• Blocking is moving a couple seats down from someone who's being an asshole so you can't hear them anymore (but meanwhile they're still harassing your friends, you're just ignoring it)
• Defederating is separating the group so that you're no longer at the table with the asshole and their asshole friends

Now, in a tolerant society, we should be tolerant of people who are merely annoying. But not people who are normalizing violence and hate. There are people you fundamentally should not sit at a table with.

It's important to understand the difference between a good faith disagreement and bad faith propaganda and harassment campaigns, which is what the right wing troll farms deal in.

Nazi instances will proliferate and it benefits nobody else to stay in federation with them. It makes the whole fediverse less usable and more dangerous. And whether you like it or not it sends a message to people who are targeted by them that they are not truly welcome here, regardless of whatever moderation rules are espoused.

And in North America, as in many places, these people are acting as a propaganda arm for a literal violent terror movement. Sometimes under a fig leaf of ”irony” but it makes no material difference whether they’re chuckling when they spew shit to me

I mean, "budget" is always relative. Kingrinder has cheaper models, but OP mentioned $100 as a target.

Good hand grinders range in price up to around $500 (or more if you get into territory like the Helor 106 or the Lyn or Weber HG1s), with the big names clustering mainly in the $200-300 area.

Below a certain price point, grind consistency may drop noticeably, and the build quality may be less robust and parts may be less available to repair and keep the grinder in service. (Relevant since this is being asked on /BuyItForLIfe)