$1400 for a non upgradable SSD and RAM, not to mention there are no USB, HDMI or audio jacks. What a ripoff.
this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
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For 1400 bucks you can get a really nice Framework Laptop. And when it breaks, you don't have to spend 1400 on a new one or 2000 on a overpriced repair that can only be performed by the manufacturer, you can actually repair everything yourself!
Or you can get like 2 good thinkpads
Or 1000+ bananas
Modern ThinkPads are hard to repair and can't really be upgraded and older ones don't have good performance or battery life.
If the last good Thinkpads were made by IBM, you can get a lot more than 2 for $1400.
Sure, but the performance and battery life will be terrible. I don't think that buying old laptops solves the problems we have with most new ones. Buying something like a Framework Laptop instead of some Dell or Apple garbage actively supports a pro-right-to-repair company and you also get a really nice laptop with good performance, battery life, upgradability, reparability and customizability.
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or a Starbook
which has coreboot, repair guides, and a very generous warranty
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These are cool. I love the concept.
I recommended my father get one after his current laptop's speakers blew out. He didn't want to wait for Q4, so we went with my 2nd recommendation, a ThinkPad.
The first two were defective (the whole model line is - overheating to scalding temps, not going to sleep when the lid is closed, not sleeping/infinite loop when manually told to sleep or by the OS idle time), the third (different model) arrived without a fucking w11pro product key. Are you actually fucking shitting me. Their solution for that was either a new machine (custom machine, almost 4 weeks lead time) or a new mobo. I figured they would put the key in the board, and we didn't want another 4 week wait, so I went with the board swap. Guess who didn't enter a key into the bios? The tech didn't have one, was just told to swap boards.
We are expecting a framework in Q1 now.
Even apple's most io-limited macbook ever had a headphone jack. Dell is really trying to outperform them.
Project Sputnik didn't start yesterday. It started in 2013 and Dell XPS was much different back then.
Dell love pretending they're the Apple of the Windows/Linux world, except the issue is that for one, people specifically bought their stuff for the things you mentioned, and that the build quality was not exclusively just black plastic. The current XPS is everything that people hated about the "Macbook" from almost a decade ago. The one with the first butterfly switches
Oh no, I see the mistake, just let me
$14.00
there we go
Yeah, I don't get it. What am I gonna do with 2 USBC ports? What if the ssd dies? Nah, I'd rather get a framework
The framework is cheaper when comparably equipped. It's not even any thicker or heavier despite everything being replaceable. Dell just wants to make you pay a huge repair fee when the SSD fails.
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Dell has sold an XPS-13 with Ubuntu out of the box for at least a decade now.
Yeah I bought an ubuntu laptop in 2018..don't know what's the news here...
I don't like the wordings and insinuations in the article. Ubuntu Linux 'snuck' into Dell laptops? Dell - best known for good-quality mass-produced PCs - end up building Linux laptops? What are they saying? Linux is low quality and it being in Dell laptops is bad?
Dell and Canonical have a partnership. And Linux isn't a choice that's forced on consumers. That's hardly what one can say about Windows. An ad-ridden spyware that's disguised as an OS and forced down everyone's throat even when we don't want it. (Not dell, but there are cases where I had to buy a laptop and clean out Windows).
I don't understand the author's exact intentions (I read the entire article). Seems like they are trying to say something positive. But the choice of words is bad.
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Earlier this year I was given one of those XPS machines with Ubuntu and decided to install Debian on it. The camera driver was so bad - I can't remember technical details but you can't simply get it to run on another kernel, it was a mess of hacks to get it to work. I decided I won't get a camera driver. "We ship a laptop with Ubuntu" does not necessarily mean working Linux drivers.
EDIT: To add insult to injury, the touch bar suddenly decided to stop responding to input. It's already bad enough to not have tactile feedback for Esc / Fn keys / Delete / Print Screen.
Very true also for the opposite direction; I am daily driving an HP Elite Dragonfly for work and my Elite x360 1030 G2 for private and both work almost flawlessly despite no official Linux support. I have to disclaim that I never tested the Fingerprint reader or IR face recognition crap. But microphone, orientation sensors, webcam, keyboard, trackpad all work extremely well (Arch linux).
It always comes down to the individual hardware it seems.
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Ubuntu needs to stop being a standard. There are better alternatives at this point
Popularity makes all forms of support infinitely easier. I'd struggle to come up with any technical reason that could be worth giving up the ability to easily google for issues or install software. That doesn't mean I think you shouldn't use other distros, just that I believe Ubuntu is the best choice for a default install targeting average people.
Yes, that's me. I have no interest in a nerdy deep-dive into esoteric distros that may be "better" according to whatever metric you suggest. To me, it's just a machine that needs to work.
With Windows, getting help when things break is easy. For a non-nerd USER, it has to be the same for Linux. Ubuntu was intended from the start to be made for people like me, and with AskUbuntu there's a large support site.
I know you can tweak your distro better, and it's faster, and so on. But it requires knowledge that I don't care to learn - just as I am not an auto mechanic, I just drive the machine.
If you want it to stop being a standard, help your distro do a better job at marketing. Ubuntu is one of the few that do some actual market research and dedicate resources to getting the OS into the hands of people by getting them interested in it. It's one of the things we are looking forwards to doing better in Fedora.
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As much as people don't like Ubuntu, for users who aren't enthusiasts they don't want a million different options to choose from
If we keep changing the standard it'll drive people away and leave behind support
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There may be, but realistically it's probably the most well known.
I'm just happy to have Linux as a standard at all. If it works on Ubuntu, there's a high chance it works on other distros and can be easily replaced
Ubuntu sucks for many reasons, but new user experience is on the better side. I don't want to use Ubuntu over Debian myself but I feel like it's the mandatory corporate evil that can make Linux more appealing to more than just techies while also making Linux desktop more appealing to corpos in Microsoft's ecosystem. Intune already has some rudimentary support for managed Linux Desktop, with Ubuntu currently supported.
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It's fine, I bought an XPS 13 years ago with Ubuntu and immediately put OpenSuSE on it. At least I'm not paying Microsoft. I still have that laptop, and it's great. I think Lenovo deserves an honourable mention here, too - we buy T and X series laptops at work with Ubuntu and they work great too.
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Lol, no mention of the fact that Ubuntu was already shipped on almost the entire Dell range, but only in China and developing world markets. This was because they had sold millions of laptops without OS in those markets, which immediately were flashed with pirated Windows, and Microsoft were pissed off. They pressured the Chinese govt to require computers must ship with an OS, so Cannonical/Ubuntu stepped in, did it for cheap (~$1/machine) and... they were still of course flashed with pirated windows immediately.
They didn't ship to the US or Europe etc., because in those markets Dell got more kickback-money than they spent, from Windows and the various crapware they shipped pre-installed. So shipping Ubuntu in the US actually cost Dell money.
Do you have a source for this that I can read more about?
Just me. It was my job for a while at Canonical, until the work was moved to China.
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Not a fan of the XPS line (expensive, not great thermals, and meh port selection) and I have never own one (though I've seen others with them). That said, I have a few of their Latitudes (currently using Latitude 7420) and one Precision and those run Linux really well.
One thing most people don't realize is that Dell does support Linux (ie. Ubuntu) beyond the XPS line and you can buy Latitudes or Precisions with Linux support OOTB. Additionally, Dell ships firmware updates via LVFS on their XPS, Latitude, and Precision lines. The support isn't perfect, but I have been happy with using Dell hardware and Linux for over a decade now.
PS. You can get really good deals via the Dell Outlet (my current laptop is refurbished from there), and you can usually find a number of off-lease or 2nd systems or parts on Ebay (very similar to Thinkpads).
The selling point of xps is that they are light. Many of us just need light laptops nowadays, as almost any hardware is more than capable of any task with the exception of gaming. But I have never gamed on laptops
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Snuck. What a load of click bait shit.
How the hell is Dell openly choosing to sell stuff to linux user. In any way shape or form snuck.
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I used to buy computers for a research lab as part of my job, we had a contract with dell.
Overall dell's entire market is made of companies like the one I used to work at, that signed a nice contract with 5 year on-site warranty, bulk order rebates and the like.
These (or the ones they sold 3 years ago, at least) aren't that bad. They're not exactly good, but you have a Linux laptop with some manufacturer support (as much as you're getting with windows at least) and they're capable machines, with good drivers and they come from the factory with Ubuntu if that's what you tick in their custom order form they give you when you sign that contract. As the guy in charge of fixing the computer, its nice knowing that its not the Linux support for the laptop that's trash.
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The XPS line was popular at work. Desk candy to compete with Mac books. However the engineering did not complete at all. The battery was the biggest fail point, we had a high percentage of battery issues under warranty, and they would take months to get replaced by the vendor.
We stopped buying them, if someone wants desk candy these days it's mostly Mac book pro as expensive as your budget can handle.
Same, we got several small batches of XPS13 over a period of several years and just about all had problems. We had issues with batteries, drivers, random hardware failures, or total failure. We switched ThinkPad X1 Yoga and Surface Laptops 13 and have far fewer issues now.
I have an (old) developer xps13. Got it with Linux on it. Great device.
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The pricing is preposterous…no option to forego the windows license, and only a 12th gen i7 and 16gb ram for $1400…on plastic with a shitty keyboard and no IO? Why not just buy a macbook air at that point and jail break it?
Lenovo is absolutely stomping Dell right.
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I had a linux 5520 and it was terrible. Standby and bluetooth never worked properly. Are the new models any better?
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