this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
329 points (95.6% liked)

World News

38278 readers
2254 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 65 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (20 children)

Could have said it a week ago, assholes.

How many Palestinian children died while you held your breath?

[–] [email protected] 61 points 10 months ago

Could have said it ~~a week ago~~ decades ago, assholes.

Ftfy

load more comments (19 replies)
[–] [email protected] 45 points 10 months ago (14 children)

West: "A little bit of genocide is fine but too much and you might make the rest of us look bad"

load more comments (14 replies)
[–] [email protected] 43 points 10 months ago (5 children)

In any given exchange of violence for these actors, it is a pretty reliable bet to say that there will be about a 10:1 ratio of Palestinians versus Israelis killed. I expect that we will see between 10k and 20k Palestinians killed, and probably somewhere less than 2k total Israelis killed. I think there will be fewer people killed by bombs and bullets than by the blockade. I suspect 90% of the casualties will be civilians. I think that all of the people who die in fear and pain while hiding in their homes as well as those who die on the barricades will be forgotten in a year or so.

I also suspect that the remaining checks on Bibi’s already significant power will end, and that Hamas will effectively cease to exist as a political power.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Much like the 2.5 million Palestinians trapped in the Gaza strip, Hamas ain't going nowhere.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 10 months ago (13 children)

Shelling civilians will definitely make more Hamas members out of people still there as well

load more comments (13 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Their existence depended on their existence being more politically palatable than the level of effort necessary for their elimination.

A modern nation-state like Israel or the US relies on a principle of disproportionate response to deter aggression. You have the most far-right, violent, and most corrupt government in the history of the state in charge and, as a result of the scale and targets of the “unprovoked” attack, they have the support of the only countries whose support matters in situations like these. The level of violence executed against Israel was enough to piss it off, but not to hurt it at all. None of their very significant military capacity was diminished. Hamas doesn’t have an Air Force. They don’t have any SAMs to speak of. They are cut off from resupply. They have no armored vehicles nor the ability to defend against them in significant number. Their “artillery” consists of unguided rockets they can fire in a general direction and which inflict so little damage as to be militarily ignorable and which only count as a “terror weapon” because it helps Israeli propaganda. They are politically and geographically isolated. They will not be resupplied. Israel on the other hand has a blank check and supply lines that cannot be interrupted.

If Israel decides to effect a ground incursion, it will be over rubble. They will call in airstrikes from fighter-bombers that the Palestinians will not be able to defend against. This is not Afghanistan. This is not Ireland.

Netanyahu is going to proceed as if he has a mandate to end this, and he is a very hard person. I do not think it gave him enough inertia to do to Gaza what Putin did to Crimea - I don’t think they can simply call it part of Israel now - but there’s going to be a reckoning.

What we are seeing right now is the limited response. I’ve been on the wrong end of irregular infantry. I’ve never been on the wrong end of modern armor, air, and artillery. I don’t recommend either, but the effects of the latter are indescribable. That’s not even touching on intelligence and special services, who I am very certain are being tasked as we speak.

Life in Gaza is about to get intensely worse for civilians. It will remain much worse than it was long after the last shell gets fired.

I honestly cannot see any way that this results in anything but an across the board loss for hamas. I also think it’s going to crush Gaza. Making life in Gaza even worse than it was is really hard, but I think they managed to make sure that comes about.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 10 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The thing is America already tried bombing an idea out of existence twice in Vietnam and Afghanistan and it failed twice. I just don’t see how brutal conflict does anything more then inspire the next generation of extremist. We need to break the cycle of violence.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Historically since 2008 to just before the conflict was 21:1, it'll be more 100:1 by the end.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I’ve been out of that business for a while and was going off of memory, so I’ll go with your numbers.

I do think the world will pull the plug on this particular situation before there are 100k Palestinians dead unless Iran or Syria gets involved. I think the problem is going to be that the rate of death is going to go vertical, and it won’t be possible to stop before it hits 10k, which could happen in a month or less depending on what they do with electricity and fuel.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's what the UN states showed last I checked.

I remain hopeful I just think it's very unlikely anyone can or will step in.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] gravitas_deficiency 20 points 10 months ago

I’m sure Israel will pay as much attention to that as we paid to the rest of the world when they were all like “no dude there’s no nukes in Iraq what the fuck are you talking about”

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago

Escalation? Didn't they already bomb the shit out of that country's innocent civilian population as literally nothing but cold blooded revenge and hatred? (And this is just talking about this month, not even talking about the past...).

Man, fuck those guys. Religion and politics of the region aside, I don't know how any people or nation can support governments who take these official actions of mass murder and genocide right before our very eyes.

They might as well be Russia for all the evil they're doing, except they're not even pretending they're doing it to help the Palestinians. They're just gleefully bombing and starving women, boys, children, babies, en masse.

And no, just because they were also attacked horribly doesn't give them the right to murder civilians like savages.

They're supposedly a functional developed nation, they should understand basic things like rules of engagement, proportional and measured response, and, you know... not officially and happily committing unforgivable war crimes :-/

Man, fuck those guys.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We fully support you! But hold back guys.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Here's more ammunition for bombing everyone, but please don't bomb the wrong target :(

[–] Varyk 11 points 10 months ago (7 children)

That'll work.

Egg them on and support them for 75 years and then tell them to chill out right before they wrap everything up.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Israel does not give a single shit about warnings from Europe as they were smart enough to not make their existence dependent on us.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Why would they? Any criticism of anything they do can be called antisemitism and made illegal.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

As a Jew, I'm glad that world leaders saying something and standing up for the protection of innocents.

On an unrelated note - why do we care what Yanis tweets about this? So weird to have that in this article.

load more comments
view more: next ›