this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2023
281 points (95.8% liked)

politics

19120 readers
2608 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

It can be tempting to dismiss Trump’s threats against his perceived opponents as mere bluster, but his attacks on Letitia James make it clear that he’s not just playing around.

I cannot actually list all the people Donald Trump has wished to harm with physical violence. They include most of his political opponents, often along with their families; every prosecutor who has investigated or indicted him; nearly every judge who has presided over one of his cases, protesters; hecklers; former vice president Mike Pence; and there was also that time he threatened to nuke a hurricane. I also can’t comprehensively list all the people of color whom Trump has tried to nudge his white-supremacist supporters to harm, but an abbreviated list includes Khizr and Ghazala Khan, Colin Kaepernick, Alvin Bragg, Fani Willis, Ruby Freeman, Shaye Moss, and basically every Black person who can’t rap.

Now, as Trump’s civil trial for fraud gets underway in Manhattan, it is New York Attorney General Letitia James’s turn to be threatened by Trump. He’s attacked her before, but, like a squirrel high on cocaine, Trump gets more frenzied the deeper he’s backed into a legal corner. On Monday, Trump took time out of the first day of his trial to find the cameras and call James a “racist” (as if she’s prosecuting Trump because he’s orange), and said, “[Y]ou ought to go after this attorney general.”

Trump will most likely get away with threatening the prosecutor in his case (again) because he intuitively understands the value of vague language. “You” could be anybody, and “go after” could mean anything. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not an idiot; I know perfectly well that the “you” is his army of MAGAs who are dumb enough to, say, storm the US Capitol, and the “go after” means that he wants them to hurt James. But what I know and what I can prove are two different things. James knows it too: Unlike Trump, who is flanked at all times by Secret Service agents, James likely has to up her private security detail every time that flaming coward calls on his people to attack her.

Trump’s rhetoric is designed to get someone killed. It’s happened before, and not just on January 6. I do not believe the 2019 mass shooting at the Walmart in El Paso, Tex., would have happened in a world without Trump. January 6 and El Paso were mass violence events, but just last week, a guy in a MAGA hat shot an Indigenous protester in New Mexico. White domestic terrorism is part of the MAGA brand, and that comes from the top. People are obsessed with whether Trump is “ordering” the violence, but that slightly misses the point by focusing on the (appropriately narrow) legal definition of incitement. The larger problem is that the person at the head of a giant political operation tries to get his people to hurt others, and his constant threats have become so normalized that most people just shrug it off.

Trump encourages violence. He is permissive of violence on his behalf. And, as far as I can tell, Trump likes violence. Trump wants violence to be done against his perceived enemies, and every now and again, someone is crazy enough to try it.

Trump’s defenders always say that he doesn’t intend for violence to occur; it’s just how “regular folks” talk. I’m sad to say that I’ve listened to enough “regular” violent white racist misogynists to say that this defense is at least credible. The hate mail I receive confirms that the very worst people in this country do, in fact, talk a lot like Donald Trump. Sometimes I have to check the IP addresses to make sure that the vitriol is not coming from Mar-a-Lago but the home of some “regular” unhinged lunatic.

The other arguments deployed in Trump’s defense are that he’s too stupid and incoherent to know that his words lead to violence, or that he is just trying to “fire up” his (violent, racist) base with colorful rhetoric. Again, I will acknowledge that Trump is both an inelegant speaker and desperate to be elected. But I could have said (and in fact did say) the same things about George W. Bush. Yet, for all of Bush’s heroic struggles with the English language, he managed to stay far clear of threatening the Democratic speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, and would never have lauded an attack on her husband.

The argument that Trump doesn’t intend for actual violence to happen fully breaks down in a situation like his civil fraud trial, because there is no legal, political, or electoral upside in his talking like this; there is no aim other than potential violence against the prosecutor. Trump is sitting for a bench trial in Manhattan: That means there is no jury to impress—or poison. The judge, Arthur F. Engoron (whom Trump has also attacked), is not going to be influenced by anything Trump says about the New York attorney general. Trump’s defenders might point to “the court of public opinion,” and maybe that explains some of the rhetoric foolishly trying to paint James as a “racist,” but what do the threats get him? There are zero people on earth who think, “I wasn’t sure about voting for Trump, but now I have to in order to go after Tish James.”

Even the argument that Trump is going old-school mobster and trying to intimidate the prosecutor doesn’t hold up here. James’s work on this matter is largely done. She oversaw the investigation, brought the charges, and might be the public face on the indictments, but she’s not the lead attorney on the case. The lead trial attorney is a man named Kevin Wallace, who serves as the senior enforcement counsel in the Division of Economic Justice in the AG’s office. If Trump wants to intimidate somebody, it should be the guy who has to stand up every day and call him a crook while Trump glowers over his shoulder. But you’ll note that, as of yet, Trump has no smoke for Wallace (a white guy), just for James, who at this point could sit in the courtroom with a bag of popcorn.

The only conclusion is that the reason Trump is threatening James is that he hopes somebody will act on it. His threats don’t help his case, don’t help his poll numbers, and certainly don’t help with all of the criminal trials waiting for him once this civil one wraps up. Trump is courting violence for the sake of violence: There’s no upside other than his own lust for bloody retribution.

One can argue that all of Trump’s other violent word dumps, including the incitement against Pence, in some way helped him gain or maintain power. But attacking the prosecutor does nothing for him. And yet he still does it. One might conclude that he’s less of a political savant who is an expert at muddying the waters and more of a dangerous criminal who should be wheeled into the courthouse on a gurney while wearing the Hannibal Lecter mask.

Unfortunately, as Clarice Starling might point out, “he’ll never stop.” Trump has faced no consequences for his violent rhetoric in the past, so he will keep going back to that well. It won’t end until he is brought to justice and jailed. The only question is whether he’ll get anybody else killed on his way down.

all 20 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 63 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Heads of criminal organizations and cults do be like that.

He knows he commands a large mob, and he's not afraid to use the nuclear option if he has nothing left to lose. It's why Fani Willis (successfully) argued that the pending juries need anonymity, despite the fact that Georgia normally requires that jurists' names be public.

He's dangerous, unhinged, and self-absorbed. The sooner he goes to prison or dies, the better off we'll all be.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly I'm hoping that he doesn't manage to jet off to some foreign country and avoid both prison and death. Imagine this slime of a human being meddling in US elections for another 10 years while in Russia, pandering to the idea that some shadow-cabal was after him all this time while the lunatics just get worked up into a worse frenzy than before. Nothing good can come from him continuing to interfere in politics.

[–] eestileib 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think it's bullshit that Ms James and Judge Engoron (among many many others) are expected to just let him continue to call out the dogs against them.

I mention Engoron specifically because the threat of contempt worked to redirect Trump off of Judge Engoron's staff.

But it looks like everybody is assuming that he would take any order prohibiting him from attacking public figures to the Supreme Court and win.

So jury members, clerks, people whose personality is not part of the political process, are getting protected but the judge and the AG just eat it and have their lives put at risk.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I dunno about that. The SC didn't exactly enjoy it when it happened to them post-Roe, plus there's a case to be made that threatening judges and AGs in such a fashion, where violence is far more likely from his cultists, affects the ability to have a fair trial.

On top of that, free speech is limited, and it excludes threats of violence. Not that this SC is above overturning such a doctrine, but I think even they wouldn't want to open that Pandora's Box, since it would certainly and swiftly be used against them.

[–] [email protected] 45 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The only way out of financial ruin and possible jail time for him is to overthrow the country and become defacto above the law.

He has nothing to lose and everything to gain in stirring up the rabid dogs that are his followers.

Things are going to get much worse before they get better.

[–] humancrayon 2 points 1 year ago

Things always get worse, before they get worse.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

Trump makes these threats because he knows a supporter of his will do something.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

He thought someone was coming after him with an arrest warrant, "you go after her." Was telling them to queue up, the line is long.

Edit: it was "you ought to go after this attorney general". They were explaining which attorney general to get in line behind, it can get confusing otherwise.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I like your snark, and truly wish it were so. 😅

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

Sure would be a shame if someone kicked former President Trump square in the dick. No one would donate to that GoFundMe or consider the dick kicker a hero.

Did I stochastic correctly there?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

the sooner we put him in jail and take his phone off him, thw sooner we can get back pretending he never existed.