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So straight out the gate: I don't ever really flirt (yes, even if I like the girl). And I'm not sure whether I should change strategies. So hence my question.
Note: I am a guy.
Edit: Thank you all for your input. I have come to the realisation I need to let the other party (better) know I am romantically interested in them. Either by means of flirtation or otherwise.
Just an anecdote, but I don’t think flirting is a specific thing to do per se, so feel it’s more just being honest to yourself and the other and letting it come out, I.e you shouldn’t think specifically about flirting, just say the things out loud you notice in the other or feel inside. Like tell them they look beautiful if they do. You create unneeded pressure when you think it as an explicit thing to do and master, when really, it’s messaging out loud your vulnerable observations and feelings we generally hold inside.
You feel bubbly inside with them? I would just go ahead and say that exactly as-is, without trying to be explicitly flirty or somehow “traditional” or beholden to the norms of what we’ve been taught flirting is.
Bubbly inside is fine if that’s what you feel. Their hair has amazing golden hues in the sun? Just say it if it feels right. You want to spend more time with them? That’s flirting, too, if you just say it out loud.
It’s vulnerable and scary, but it’s not hard or really even a bespoke thing to do. It’s letting yourself be vulnerable and open to hurt by voicing your thoughts, feelings and desires.
It can be fun too, since if the other is also struggling with knowing when it’s fine to voice things like that, you doing it signals it’s fine and you get all the warmth and love and voiced validation for yourself too. You get to hear how they perceive you, what is beautiful or exciting in you, you lower the barrier of just hooking up if it feels right for both, forming thoughts and feelings into words just starts coming more natural and it’s always just fun and exciting and validating, as well as all the other lovely things.
So what I’m trying to say is don’t think about flirting as a thing, just start saying shit out loud when you feel said shit. You like the way they look? Just start voicing it out loud, and it just flows naturally from there if the excitement is mutual.
Much less intimidating if you stop thinking about it and stressing about the concept of flirting as you’ve perceived it from media and such. It’s natural, comes readily for all, when the situation is right. All it takes is daring to take the jump, which is really the only serious blocker, being brave enough to be vulnerable. If you make flirting as a concept a blocker and a source of anxiousness too, you’ll have double the amount of anxiousness and blockers.
Best try and consciously just say things out loud instead. Half the stress and sweat, 100% of the reward ✨
People generally enjoy that stage of a relationship the most so you can do your own math here.
But I'm not in a relationship?
I feel like flirting isn't really something people do while dating nowadays. I (and probably some other women) find it more annoying if you wanna get to know the other person. Most flirting I like is after you're already in a relationship, because you can be sure that the other person is safe and not a creep. Of course you still need to find a way to show interest
Of course you still need to find a way to show interest
Do you have any tips on how to do that?
Try to get to know her. Ask follow up questions to show you're actually listening. Tell her you are interested in another date afterwards. Stuff like that, even if it sounds generic
When I went on the first few dates with my now-wife, I did not flirt with her as in try to tease her or do anything overtly sexual.
I honestly think I won her over because how enthusiastic I was about telling stories. She said I was so charming because of how passionate and animated I was while telling her about myself that she could see how confident and content I was.
Prior to meeting her at 35, I had never had a girlfriend and had only ever gone on 2 dates.
Flirting is part of the process, the dance. It's also a pretty broad term.
Flirting is part of the process
Okay and how big (would you say) is that part?
It’s also a pretty broad term.
Would you say that talking amicably, counts as flirting?
I feel like talking amicably just falls under being friendly by definition lol
“Hey, I really enjoyed that conversation, let’s meet for a coffee some day, how can I text you?”
But if I sign it off like this. That would MAKE the message pretty clear, right?
Not really, I would take it at face value. Unless the person sent some really strong signals. And even then I would just do the conclusion that requires the least assumptions, which is just friend vibes.
But you can still be explicit afte the fact. I get is hard tho, since you have to be pretty vulnerable.
Eh, just say, "I'm trying to flirt with you. How's it doing?"
And if she laughs, you're in. If she does squirmy-squirm face, "Well, I had to try. Now let's enjoy this awkward silence together." And stare at the ground silently, but for no more than three seconds.
Never more than 3 seconds. Listen up guys, most important part!
Well, then it actually is awkward instead of a confident, "I saw this coming lol" silence.
What counts is how the other person perceives it.
Talking amicably is just being polite. Knowing how to say things "with a wink and a nudge" would be more flirting.
Flirting occurs when you demonstrate attraction to someone indirectly or obliquely. Such indirectness creates tension, because we both know what I'm saying, but since I haven't actually said it, there's ambiguity.
It can also be direct statements, but that doesn't demonstrate that you understand the dance. And I really do mean dance. Dancing is all about connection, being able to stay connected to a dance partner when you're moving apart, and sensing just when, and how firmly, to pull them back toward you. It's like you have a rubber band between you. Feeling that tension in it when you're far apart is exciting, releasing that tension by coming closer resolves it. Back and forth you go. Flirting is the same.
Flirting should be a fun thing for you. Don't view it as something you "just" have to do - it's how we assess each other, it's part of the process (it is a process, not a check box). It also never ends, just changes within a relationship.
We do the same with non-romantic relationships, there it's called small talk (or you could say we don't move from small talk to flirting).
That's like saying you don't put in job applications and are trying to figure out why you can't find employment
OP be like "Okay and how big (would you say) is that job applications part?"
Like I dunno dude, how are we supposed to quantify that shit? It's just part of the dance
Better question we could give OP is "What difference would the answer make?" like is OP trying to figure out whether he can skip it or how much time to invest in practicing it or what lol. this is such a ridiculous thread
Damn, that's without a doubt a perfect synopsis of what's going on here. Seriously, I'm impressed.
“What difference would the answer make?”
If the answer is: "Yes, it's very important." Then I know what to improve. If the answer is something along the lines of: "The important part is the connection between the two parties." Then I don't know what to do, to be honest.
Ok, then to be very clear, yes it matters a lot. I'm a slut. I've had an amount of casual and easy sex that it feels cringe talking about on the internet. I'm also married. I always start with flirtation and if someone doesn't flirt back I stop. Because the alternative is to keep hitting on someone who may be uninterested, which is what creeps do. Theres a range of time that it's ok to flirt without flirting back, but yeah if you dont initiate and you don't reciprocate only creeps will ask you out
Yeah for how big is it? It's so basic I've never considered it might be why some people aren't getting laid. I'm more likely to assume someone doesnt shower than that they don't flirt
You exchange dick pics on adam4adam and figure out where to hook up. Pretty straight forward imo
What do you think flirting is, OP?
Romantic/sexual banter.
Well, as others have already said, there's layers and levels of flirting.
All the little unconscious body language that most people aren't even aware of is still part of flirting. So, chances are that you do flirt, but only on that level
Conscious flirting, that's a more complicated issue. Truth is that it's a skill. You have to practice it. But, practicing it means that the early learnin curve is brutal. It helps if you have kind of a natural flair for it, but there's still going to be a lot of failures.
So, I really can't recommend someone using it as a strategy. Then again, thinking about dating and romance in terms of strategy is iffy to begin with.
Best thing anyone can do is to stop thinking about getting another person to be interested. Outside of movies, one person winning the heart of another via some kind of plan isn't a good thing. When it does work, it's usually a disaster because the people involved never really got to know the other in a real sense. Which is fine for what it is. And it's great if all parties are just looking for short term interaction to begin with. Having that veil of fantasy works out well for surface level stuff.
So, don't flirt if it isn't something you already do. Definitely don't try and learn to flirt because you can't trust anyone to teach you. Why? Because it's a personal thing. The kind of flirting I do isn't going to work for you.
Just be you. Be honest. If you're interested, it's going to show. You probably can't stop it, and it would just show a different way if you tried.
Not that flirting can't be fun, it is fun. When it's mutual, it's even better. There's this dance of two (or more) people using all those normally unconscious cues as steps, inviting each other and urging each other.
The thing with that is that it really only happens like magic after all parties know they're interested in each other. You should hear my kid roll their eyes out of their head when me and my wife are flirting. "You're already married." That's the point kid, that's the point. We've been doing that dance for over a decade.
Back in my younger days, there was a point where I flirted actively because I thought you were supposed to. That learning curve was indeed brutal, despite being decent at it. And I was a bouncer off and on, so I saw a lot of it. Mostly bad, and mostly failed because it was not natural.
So, again, I wouldn't try to start flirting. And definitely stop thinking in terms of strategy. It isn't a game to win. The more you let yourself think of it in those terms, the harder it gets to not only have good interactions, but the harder it is to stop and be yourself once it becomes obvious that the interactions aren't positive.
I get the whole "Just the be yourself" message. But right now things just aren't moving. Like, at all. And I do have plenty of hobbies. Even meeting women is genuinely not a problem for me. So I'm kind of stuck between the being myself and changing strategies. To be honest with you. If being myself means I don't ever find someone, which over the years have quite clearly proven to be the case. Then I say: "Fuck being myself."
If things aren't moving, then the people you're around just aren't interested.
You can't strategize your way into someone being into you without it being fake. And if it's fake, then you've not only lied, but you've wasted their time and yours because it's dead in the water.
Not saying you can't change yourself, you absolutely can. But if you're changing into someone that's fake and trying to bullshit you way into something, well, you'll eventually get what you deserve.
How old are you? It matters. If you're fifty and thinking like that, then there's only so many ways to go. If you're thirty, you have more options because you have more time if you're under thirty, you haven't been at it long enough to be worrying about "never" finding anyone.
For real, until and unless you stop thinking about it as some kind of challenge you have to chase after and plan out a strategy, you're going to fail more often than not. That whole mentality loses because the outcome of success is eventually realizing that you're in a dead marriage, or your wife realizing you aren't who she thought you were. Neither of which is a good place.
I've seen that shit so many times over the years. Friends, family, trying so hard to win the prize that they forget to make sure they want what they're chasing.
If you just want your dick wet, that's easy enough. Nobody, including the people you'd be fucking, actually care if you lie outright, much less if you just fake things a little. But if you want the kind of relationship where you look into each other's eyes when you're 70 and still feel that love, you gotta be real. You gotta be willing to strip away your preconceptions of what you're supposed to want, and figure out what really matters to you
My ass? I didn't find what I was really looking for until I was forty. Had plenty of girlfriends along the way, some long term. None of them worked. But you know what was great about that? Because I knew what I was really after, and I was open and honest along the way (barring some youthful stupidity getting laid just to get laid), when those relationships weren't going to work, we could end them before they got ugly, and stay friends mostly. Me and my wife hang out with some of my exes here and there.
If being you isn't working, then the answer isn't to play games, it's to start figuring out why it isn't working and work on that. It could be as simple as you being in the wrong place. If the place you're in has a culture, and that culture is such that who you are isn't seen as a positive, it isn't necessarily a thing that's wrong with it, it just doesn't fit.
Or it could be you, I don't know. Maybe you're an asshole. Maybe you're great, but horrible at telling when someone is into you, so you hit on the wrong ones. Maybe you have impossible standards. But I promise you, nobody ever gets happiness because they strategized their way into a relationship
Being you is important, but I have to disagree with the first paragraph.
I’m in my late twenties and never been in a relationship, I can speculate a lot of reasons but I think the bottom line is a mix of I was too afraid of rejection to ask enough girls out, and was hoping one will eventually approach me.
I recently started dating a girl I’ve known for a while (several years), and she actually asked me why it took me so long to ask her out, and said she’d have agreed to go out with me way earlier if I’d just asked. That’s despite the fact that she wasn’t expecting me to ask her out at all, and was actually surprised when it happened because she never thought about me that way and had no idea I was interested.
My point is, you should be yourself, but you also have to reach out, and be ready for failure, and still keep going. Someone not thinking about you romantically right now doesn’t mean it doesn’t have to change. And, at least as a man, it’s less likely a girl will approach you first (it does happen, and I think it’s great, but me seeing it happen to several of my friends made me think all I have to do is wait, which is a bad attitude to have). That’s my two cents.
There's a difference between 'faking' / trying to become something you're not and improving your communication style /skills. You're meeting women, not flirting, and not progressing into the kinds of relationships you want. You don't need to start 'flirting' (whatever that means to you), but maybe you can change what's happening after meeting people. I assume your speaking with people you find attractive? How do you build a connection with them? How are you letting them know you're interested in taking things further?
There's a big difference from A) meeting women, being pleasant, and hoping that one of them asks you out, and B) meeting women, having some friendly conversations, then asking if they want to start dating. Those are extremes, but the space in the middle can all be considered forms of flirting.
Flirting doesnt need to be some special way of making eye contact, or lame pick up lines. Having fun, making jokes and being silly can be flirting. Asking someone politely if they'd like to get coffee some time can be flirting. Flirting is just the process of letting the other person know that you're interested in them in a romantic / sexual way, and good flirting is letting them know that in a way that doesn't make them uncomfortable and makes it easy for them to respond without making things awkward for either of you.
Though I had a hot streak in my late twenties to early thirties, I was pretty lonely for a long time because I wasn’t finding anything substantial and then I couldn’t establish even short term relationships. I was pretty hopeless when a partnership sort of formed without my realizing it. Now we live together and we’re pretty happy. We are 100% genuine about who we are with each other and that’s great. Don’t give up hope. I wish you luck.
Flirting comes in a lot of forms. It should spring naturally, a fair bit more naturally with experience. But awkward flirting isn't always a bad vibe either. On a date just let go of specific goals, be there to have a good time, being open to whatever that can entail as you connect. If you fixate on specific goals, you might overthink and become paralyzed when the date inevitably doesn't go as planned. Try to be in a happy, relaxed headspace.
Generally flirting is pretty important, because it should be a natural, unforced extension of both parties feeling safe, being light-hearted, and having fun. But don't try to force it.
Try to look at it from the perspective of the person you're talking to. Nobody wants to make a fool of themselves, and assuming someone is interested (without evidence) is a great way for someone to become very embarrassed. Flirting is how you subtly let a person know it's safe to suppose you might be into them and proceed accordingly. Conversations and invitations that are completely devoid of flirtation will instead tell them that you're just being polite or friendly.
So it's important!
Isn't flirting the accepted way of signaling to another person, that you're interested in them in a certain way? I mean I talk to lots of different people of different genders in my life. And I'm mostly very nice to people and find interesting topics to talk about. But how are they supposed to find out if it's just a nice conversation, or if I want to meet them again, or if I want to go on a date with them?
But how are they supposed to find out if it’s just a nice conversation, or if I want to meet them again, or if I want to go on a date with them?
If I'm having a friendly chat with someone and I suggest we meet again in a different setting, wouldn't that be a clear enough sign?
It is not. That is just friendship.
Nah, just means you enjoy somebody's company. Not strictly romantically. If anything, being direct is probably best if your not skilled with proper flirting.
I'd say yes. That'd be a clear sign. And bordering on what I'd call flirting. If you say "Hey, I really enjoyed that conversation, let's meet for a coffee some day, how can I text you?"
It'd say it's polite and does the job. And there's no need to be super explicit, unless you want to initiate a one-night-stand.
If you say “Hey, I really enjoyed that conversation, let’s meet for a coffee some day, how can I text you?”
When given chance, this is basically the way I go about it. Just a quick on-the-side question: How quickly do you usually suggest something like that?
And bordering on what I’d call flirting.
What would you call flirting?
Just a note about flirting, communication, and fear of rejection.
If you're being subtle in a conversation to avoid coming on too strong and form a relationship... don't be. Any relationship you form by cloaking your personality will weaken when you reveal your true self.
The goal in dating shouldn't be to form a relationship, it should be to form a good relationship. Jumping into a bad relationship that you just barely work in is going to waste your time and cause a lot more grief than anything else.
If my advice is a bit surprising that's fair - there's a reason the divorce rate is so high among young couples and you really don't want to go through that experience.
Really good points.
Own yourself, your goals, your intentions. People can sense/read when your behaviour doesn't seem to align with what we think is concealed intentions.
Nearly all people enjoy when someone has the sense of self to be forward.
I don't know why everyone else here says "No." Maybe it's down to preference. I usually like people not just for their outer appearance, but to a greater degree for their intelligence, wits, humor, similar perspective on life... And it just takes time to talk about all of that. So, I rather keep it down with being suggestive and just let things play out. Took me a long time. But everyone is different.
I'm not sure if I have a good definition of flirting. I'm more a problem-oriented person. I do whatever gets the job done. If I want to meet someone again, I just tell them that, as you said. And I usually don't have any ulterior motives. And I'm currently not in the dating game, so I'm pretty much relaxed on parties and social events in that regard. But I think I've always gone to social events to have fun, and not so much to do dating.
It depends a bit on who your target audience is. I think it's usually a good idea to roughly be how you are and not play some role. But I'm not a dating expert, so I might be wrong.
I don’t know why everyone else here says “No.” Maybe it’s down to preference.
Well, at least it makes the discussion more interesting.😅
And I usually don’t have any ulterior motives.
Well I for one usually do have said ulterior motives (I want to see them romantically). Shouldn't I then be a bit more (flirtatiously) direct with them?
Sure. I think being honest is a solid choice, generally speaking. There is some etiquette. If you're way too direct, you might be perceived as a creep. But you certainly have to do something, or it won't lead anywhere.
Telling people you want to stay in contact, or you think they're attractive, or you like their outfit, or whatever people do for flirting seems to be alright. Some people crack jokes and try to be funny, or interesting... Whatever floats your boat. I think the one important thing is to read the room. See if they're comfortable. And if they enjoy talking to you, or if you've just cornered them and are monologuing. Most (not all) people can do that. And I'd say as long as everyone is comfortable, it's the right thing. I mean you have to send some signals for them to know what's up with you. So yeah, that kind of directness might be helpful. And after that, spending time together (and not just in a larger group) is a signal, too, in my opinion.
I don't think there is any general, correct way of doing it. It just depends on the situation, on who you are, and especially what the other person likes.
I've been flirting with my wife for 30 years
Flirting is a pretty nebulous term.
My personal definition of flirting is any positive expression or behavior which:
examples:
A typically reserved guy pulling you aside and animatedly asking about your interest.
A woman who normally doesn't touch you is repeatedly teasing you about your shirt, pulling on the fabric.
A good friend begins to repeatedly and unexpectedly invite you over for one on one movie nights despite obvious inconveniences.
That's just my opinion, though. I believe most people are looking for these heightened expressions of flirting to confirm interest.
There's active flirting, and then there's unconscious, passive flirting that happens purely out of being genuinely interested in a person.
I am not a great active flirter, but I do know that my words and body language will do the heavy lifting, unconsciously.
Perhaps you're in the same boat?
I am not a great active flirter, but I do know that my words and body language will do the heavy lifting, unconsciously.
This is actually quite interesting, because it's not always something you can really control on especially if you're unaware of it. My wife noticed it and mentioned, because she saw me "flirting" with someone else and I legitimate didn't have any romantic interests or flirting in mind there.
Of course you could say it was over jealousy from her part but also I kind of learned that to respect her I need to be more careful to not leave wrong impression
Flirting is part of a non-platonic relationship during the introduction, wooing and continued phases.
Flirting can take a lot of forms though, so if you're uncomfortable with what social media describes as flirting then you may simply have a different love language.
For context, my partner and I met digitally through (essentially) a text based MMORPG and have been married for about a decade and a half. Never were unironic pickup lines part of our courtship.
How are you going to communicate to the counterparty your interest in them?
If you're really unsure if they're into you just ask. In my experience women appreciate directness and confidence.