this post was submitted on 01 Feb 2025
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596
Canada 'will stand up to a bully', says Mark Carney (www.bbc.com)
submitted 3 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
105 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Summary

Mark Carney, frontrunner for Canadian Liberal Party leadership and potential prime minister, stated Canada will stand up to a bully after Trump imposed 25% tariffs on Canadian imports.

Carney vowed to retaliate by matching the US tariffs dollar for dollar, asserting Canada would not cave in despite mounting pressure.

He criticized Trump for undermining trade agreements, warning that the tariffs would damage the US global reputation and economic stability.

Outgoing Prime Minister Trudeau promised a forceful, immediate response, emphasizing unity as Canada defends its economic interests, ensuring national prosperity.

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[–] merc 83 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

"Matching the US tariffs dollar for dollar" is such a stupid policy.

A better policy would be stopping flows of Canadian dollars to the US. Declare that US patents are no longer valid in Canada. Pass a law requiring that Apple and Google allow competing app stores on their phones with no strings attached. Remove any penalty from jailbreaking phones and allow anybody who wants to sell jailbreaking kits. Declare a universal right to repair in Canada, so that Canadian farmers don't have to pay John Deere if they want to repair their tractors. Say that all copyrights belonging to the Hollywood copyright cartel are no longer recognized, and let people trade their music, tv and movies freely.

Nobody's going to be brave enough to do that. But, really, the US declaring a 25% across-the-board tariff on Canada is basically an economic nuke. Don't respond with a measured and exactly equal economic war response. Canada can't win by fighting by those rules.

Edit: Better yet, because it's more likely to be possible, just decriminalize it. Don't change the laws. Just make it clear to police and prosecutors that someone who infringes on American IP should be treated like someone smoking pot in public in 2015. Imagine someone setting up a little kiosk in the Eaton Centre selling the latest movies and software for pennies while the cops just ignored them. If John Deere tries to get someone charged for selling "fix your tractor" software bundles that bypass the access controls on tractors, the police should just laugh at them. Picture a kiosk that roots your phone and lets you install a Canadian app store where the vendor's cut is only 5% not 30%, and all the profits stay in Canada. A thriving business could be set up where you bring in your HP printer, and walk out with a device that can use any ink at all. Canada could even host How-Tos and tools for the rest of the world on how to take control over your electronics. Can you imagine how quickly Tim Apple would book a flight to Mar A Lago to beg with Trump to back down?

I think this is much more likely in Mexico though. The respect for US intellectual property is already pretty low there to begin with. But, formally, the government still officially respects US IP. What if they let off the brakes entirely and just let the "invisible hand of the market" work without the handcuffs of IP law?

[–] [email protected] 31 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

You are not wrong in some of theses but they would requiere a legal framework that does not exist today to be created in a hurry.

Tariffs are literally easier so they are the first step and it does not mean they would be the last

[–] Corkyskog 15 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Doesn't the Tariffs Basically invalidate the old trade agreements, making them worthless so now the other countries can do whatever they want?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago

I would think so but don't really know from a legal standpoint

What's clear now is that a contract with the USA is not worth an "Elon's promise" so any current agreement is basically null and void

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Yes. This. Plus let's finally kill off Netflix in Canada. Who even uses that shithole of a service anymore?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago

Stop! You are making too much sense!

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (3 children)

Focus your anger on the American companies who have the money to buy up the mess after the economy tanks. Apple, Amazon, Google, Microsoft.

Pirate! Distribute! Destroy!

Also... don't buy their shit.

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[–] [email protected] 116 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I don't know a single person who isn't for a harsh retaliation. I haven't felt this united with my fellow Canadians ever.

[–] [email protected] 56 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Smith isn't, and, as an Albertan, it's goddamn embarassing. Nothing authoritarians like more than a bigger authoritarian.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago (3 children)

And Scott Moe in Saskatchewan.

[–] Voroxpete 43 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Honestly, all of this "51st state" bullshit has been a gift to Canada. For far too long the leaders on the right have been appealing to Canadian MAGA by emulating and praising everything Trump and his ilk do, and now they're being forced to either turn on Trump or turn on Canada. In something like a week he's shattered the alliance between the American right and the Canadian right, and left them absolutely spinning in the wind, searching for some sense of identity.

A smarter version of Trump would have kept his mouth shut until Pollievre was in, and then started to lean on him through back channels for consessions, just like Bush did with Harper. That filthy traitor would gladly give Trump everything he wants without a fight. But for Trump it's about the fight; slapping tariffs on other countries makes his tiny dick feel a little less tiny.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (1 children)

All of these guys are stupid really. It would've made sense for Pollievre to not push for no confidence and just wait until October where he'd be up against Trudeau and probably win. But he got his way and Trudeau resigned. Now is he going to force an election in the winter where he's running against a stronger candidate? Last election the Liberals took a big hit in the polls from calling an unscheduled election. How many points will Pollievre lose if he makes a winter election happen?

Pollievre went all-in on US style politics and it's wearing thin. Running endless ads outside of a campaign has made people sick and tired of him. When his US brethren tank the economy people might question whether being "anti-woke" is sound economic policy.

It's still his election to lose, but it seems he's doing everything possible to make that happen.

[–] Voroxpete 19 points 3 days ago (16 children)

His other big problem is that he's just not very likeable. People hate Trudeau, so they were willing to side with anyone who would get him out. But with Trudeau gone voters are now faced with the fact that they really don't much like Pollievre either.

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[–] Makeshift 33 points 3 days ago (2 children)

There are plenty of people in the US cheering for harsh retaliation, too. Despite being directly harmed by it.

This man is going out of his way to hurt everyone he can regardless, and everyone who can do anything here is just sitting down, shutting up, and obeying in advance.

I am glad that other countries are ready and willing to to hit this bully back. Seems like the best hope we have is from people on the outside.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'm cheering for harsh retaliation because it's the only language the orange man will understand. If the economy has to collapse for us to have any chance of getting Americans to ditch their support of fascism, well we've already fucked up a million times to get this far so we'll have to struggle through it.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago

I'm in the US. Fucking make it hurt. Maybe it'll make the shitstains finally learn, or at least kill off enough that this shit won't be a worry in the near figure.

Is it gonna suck for me? Yup. But it is anyways, so instead of the frog in the pot lets flambe this shit.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 3 days ago (2 children)

God I hate trade wars, but good on Canada for not rolling over for Trump.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I really really hope they continue resisting. My biggest fear is everyone gives him what he wants and the idiots I’m surrounded by cheer his victory.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago

the idiots I’m surrounded by cheer his victory.

That's kinda the American way, sadly.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago

I don't want to be a downer, but realistically considering the impact of this Canada is probably going to have to acquiesce at least temporarily.

Trump is applying cold, calculating business logic to this; Canada needs to do business with the US to a large degree, if that becomes costly their (relatively) small economy becomes less viable without reform which they don't have time to implement.

Don't get me wrong, I'm 100% behind Canada in fighting this but realistically it's not a fight they're going to win.

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[–] [email protected] 33 points 3 days ago (1 children)

This isn't a bully, our organizations and institutions are under attack from an unelected billionaire who bought the president while he was still a candidate. This is a coup by neo Nazis. We are fucked and they will start a war with you.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 3 days ago

The moose cavalry will handle it.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 3 days ago (2 children)

If y'all want to burn the white house down again, I'll bring marshmallows for us to roast on the flames.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 3 days ago

I'd rather they burn down Mar-a-lago. The White House is a nice historic building.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago

I wanna see people partying like it's 1812

[–] [email protected] 47 points 3 days ago (3 children)

I'm an expat who has been a permanent resident of Canada since 2017, and it's a horror show watching Trump receive a second term and then turn on Canada. I know his threat of invasion/buying Canada or whatever is all peacocking, but if in ten years I've been thrust back into the American healthcare system, I'll throw myself off of a bridge.

[–] [email protected] 40 points 3 days ago (20 children)

Canada won't willingly be part of the US. If the US invades Canada, it would be the end of the US.

The US gets boners over their military tech, but they weren't able to successfully occupy Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Canada is bigger than those countries, and this would not be an overseas war where they can just go home when they fail. Americans don't have the willpower to succeed with a long drawn out occupation. They freak the fuck out over a few drones in New Jersey, they obviously wouldn't be able to handle a war on the North American continent involving drones flying over them carrying explosives and searching for targets. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what a US war with Canada would be like.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Imagine fighting a resistance that can just cross over the border and perfectly blend in with your population. It's madness to even suggest it even if they weren't important allies.

[–] merc 16 points 3 days ago (2 children)

The whole idea is ludicrous. There are so many things that would make it utterly impossible.

  1. The border. Ignore everything else, just think about the border. The US/Canada border is the longest land border on the planet. It's utterly impossible to defend that border.
  2. Utter lack of support for the war. Even the Vietnam War enjoyed a decent amount of popular support for the first few years. Imagine starting a war that more than 50% of the population opposed right off the bat.
  3. Conflict on US soil for the first time since the Civil War. Sure, the US participated in WWI and WWII, and they were the main military force in the Korean, Vietnam, and Gulf wars. Those were all wars that happened overseas somewhere. A few thousand people died on Sept. 11th and the whole country freaked out for decades. The US psyche isn't ready for a war on US soil.

Militarily, Canada couldn't stand up to the US at all. But, the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland show what guerilla tactics can achieve, especially when it's almost impossible to distinguish the "bad guys" from the "good guys". And, that's without even talking about all the Americans who would take the opportunity to turn against their own fascist government.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 3 days ago (5 children)

Troop morale would be incredibly low, too. I would be pissed if I somehow got drafted to invade Canada. It’d be like something out of a cartoon.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 3 days ago (3 children)

It would literally be asked to potentially die for the cause of betraying an ally for money. And not money for you, money for already extremely wealthy oligarchs.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 days ago

I'll throw myself off of a bridge.

But couldn't y'all set a better example by throwing anyone involved with private insurance off that bridge?

[–] [email protected] 11 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Genuine curiosity, why do you call yourself an “expat” instead of “immigrant”? Is there a difference?

[–] [email protected] 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

It's the (stupid) legal term of an American who has moved abroad. Even my tax returns are done through "expat services".

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 3 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Good on Canada and Mexico for sticking to their guns and not rolling over for Trump. Show him that winning trade wars isn't as easy as he likes to think it is, and then force him into favorable terms when he implodes his own economy.

edit: lmao, well that was short. Tariffs don't go into effect until tomorrow and Trump already caved to pressure from Trudeau and Sheinbaum. Trump got the massive conciliation prize of... Canada and Mexico agreeing to do stuff they had already agreed to do under the Biden administration. lol.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

There's a few comments like this, but what would rolling over look like and / or why would a country do that?

The entirely expected and appropriate response is to apply retaliatory tariffs. This doesn't take bravery and isn't "standing your ground" it's just the obvious default response.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There’s a few comments like this, but what would rolling over look like and / or why would a country do that?

Look no further than Colombia, who was likewise threatened with tariffs by Trump if they refused to accept our deportees. They caved and accepted them after initially refusing them.

Now, in that case, I'm sure some people in the Colombian government likely did the math and determined that it would be cheaper to just accept the few hundred people Trump deported than to have the tariffs damage their economy by depressing the demand for exports like coffee.

The entirely expected and appropriate response is to apply retaliatory tariffs. This doesn’t take bravery and isn’t “standing your ground” it’s just the obvious default response.

It is if the tariffs were meant to stand on their own merit. Trump has only historically used tariffs as a threat to get what he wants. The one time he implemented targeted tariffs on China in his first term, it led to him having to bail out farmers with the money that was collected from the tariff revenue as a result of the retaliatory tariffs on agriculture exports. You would think he would have learned his lesson about using tariffs as a bluff and then following through anyway when it's called, but then again, we are talking about Trump here. You don't get to bankrupt a casino and still claim to have a shred of business acumen.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

Yeah ok. Good points about Colombia. I think that's quite different given the trade surplus for them - they would sell a lot more coffee to the US than goods they import surely.

[–] [email protected] 37 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

"Why don't you want to join the land of the free and home of the brave?"

Because if we gave in to the pressure and joined, we would be neither.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 days ago

Bury him. The entire world will thank you.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Canada should join the EU.

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[–] [email protected] 35 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Canadian oil would be hit with lower tariffs of 10%, which would take effect later, on 18 February.

Cool we could put 15% on oil going to US and help trump keep his 25% on everything promises.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 3 days ago

Screw 15%. Put it to 25% right now, and on 18 February Trump will have to choose between a 25% increase in oil prices or a 35% increase if he goes through with adding the 10% tariff.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 3 days ago

Make US thirteen colonies again?

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