Carry on California and tell the MAGAts to shove it up their asses.
this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2024
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This is fantastic. It's not super expensive either. Just an extra 240 volt 50 amp cable with a 14-50 outlet. If done at the build stage it's a few hundred bucks.
The cost of the outlets isn’t bad, but the whole system has to be wired and able to support those outlets all being in use. The average apartment is probably only wired for about 50-100 amps per unit, so this would mean a 50-100% increase in the capacity for the building or a load sharing system that can split the load in a way that’s compatible with everyone’s EVSE. I don’t know what that kind of system would cost. But it’s going to be more than just $200-500 per space. This is not to disparage the requirement. I think this is absolutely the right move if you are going to ban new gas cars in your state in a few years. I hope we see these kind of requirements everywhere in the next 5 years. Lack of charging prevents most non home owners from being able to consider EVs.
It’s even cheaper than that. The minimum according to the article is 240v/20a. That smaller than a dryer outlet. You could literally use standard 12 gauge wire to it, just like you would to a dishwasher
That's actually kind of sad. They should have mandated 50 amps
I completely agree: what’s the point of “preparing for the future” with such a big loophole, making people to have to pay all over again?
A year ago I got an EV, and went with the 50a level 2 charger, because that gives me options plus adds something to my house that people might want. I have a short commute and only go into the office a couple times a week, so technically I could use the much lower end solution, might even be able to just use a standard outlet. Technically it’s enough. But I didn’t get an EV until I knew I could make it convenient too.
240V/20A will charge an EV with a 50-60kwh battery in around 12 hours. That's a typical SUV EV battery. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of good options yet for EVs that aren't SUVs, especially if you avoid Tesla. In any case, there are some options coming down the pipe, and they'll likely have smaller batteries because they just don't weigh that much.
That much is fine for daily use and the occasional road trip. The day after a big drive, you'll have enough to get to work and back. The situation it might not handle is back to back long trips. Overall, not ideal, but adequate.
Also won’t handle:
- if you forget to charge, that’s it for the day
- if you have multiple cars or guests with cars
My level 2 charger will give me enough juice to run an errand in 30-60 minutes, and my typical charge is 2-3 hours. If I had a second car and only one charger, I can also get that vehicle charged in time to do something the same day
I agree it should be higher, but I don't agree that it's useless. At my place I am using plain old level 1 charging, 120 volts 15 amps. It's actually tolerable most of the time. I don't always get up to 80% every night, and I do sometimes have to stop at a supercharger, but it's usable enough for probably 90% of my charging. 240 volt 20 amp circuit call that 15 amps at the EVSE is 3.6 KW. That would be entirely usable for me.
I think they probably did it this way so it doesn't mess with panel size and service size calculations too much. Still, I wish it was bigger.
Good point about not messing too much about service sizes, but if this is for new construction, that shouldn’t be a big deal. Actually, that’s a positive side effect for new construction: as everything is electrified, you hope your new house started with sufficient electrical service to handle it. I would be pissed off to have to update my service or panel on a new house just to support something totally expected
Now if only PGE would stop charging 60 cents / KwH
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It's good to know the rich people will be able to charge their expensive cars.
The goal is to start making charging ubiquitous, so it will eventually be available to everyone. Let wealthy early adopters pay to build out the infrastructure and the market, so it will be everywhere ready to use
False, The used Chevrolet Bolt, Bolt EUV and Nissan Leaf EV's are affordable and there are plenty of them on the market with low mileage.
that's not even mentioning the Chinease cards from manufactures like BYD (outside the US)
Unfortunately every apartment I have lived in with charging adds a massive markup to the electricity coming out of the chargers. At one place we were paying $150/month for a space with an EV charger and the electricity coming from the charger was still billed at around 10x the base rate. It was far cheaper to fill our plugin hybrid with gas than to use the charger in our parking space.
I’m sure the same will apply here. It doesn’t help anyone if the complex is allowed to gouge the tenants on the electricity usage.
Yeah, it’s really annoying. My ex’s association just voted against chargers. The plan was to set aside a distant parking lot and have a service come in to run them, profit off them.
The thing is these are townhouses with front service entrance, mostly with parking spots just across the sidewalk. It would be cheaper and easier to run a wire from the service entrance under the sidewalk, to a pedestal by the spot, and let it be part of their regular electric bill. This would also let you phase it in over time, rather than spend a ton of money at once
In theory chargers being more readily available will help with this. If they mark up the electricity 10x and all the tenants just charge at work instead, there's a motive to make the price more competitive. In practice we might just end up with more AI price fixing and consumers with no recourse.
Ironically, the chargers at my office ALSO charge a big markup.
Competition is good, but landlords at offices and apartment buildings have a somewhat captive customer base who will often pay exorbitant prices for convenience.
Renters are not that captive of customers. Once it becomes a common amenity, renters will start considering it as part of the rent when deciding where to live. Just like they do with utilities, garbage collection, and other amenities that landlords can charge for outside of base rent.
Great to see this. In 10 years ice cars will not be sold so this needs to happen now.
Now if only we could build way more new residential units in CA.
I was going to say. I'm sure this will be great... for all 25 new homes built in CA that year!
Frankly incredible that the NEC isn't requiring this in all new editions yet. Absurdly short sighted. Like, it's just 1 circuit to a garage if a garage is present. All the yokel states can refuse to adopt that section if they want, whatever.
Run two, for a future battery.
An ESS is a bit of a different animal though. They are generally wired directly to the meter's output, before any circuits and may even come with their panel that would then control all the circuits in the house.
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This is great. Now do battery storage.
That would be hella expensive
Not to be battery-ready. I’m not suggesting batteries get installed.
Most modular home battery banks can take EV chargers as an input. I know Ecoflow can, and I expect Anker solix can too. These circuits could charge battery banks instead, which the cars could plug into.
Sounds like they are getting battery storage ready.
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Which is exactly why we'd expect it lmao.
Don’t they need to make it mandatory to increase capacity first? Most average residential streets probably dont have enough power to charge an EV on every address simultaneously.
Somewhat true but this won't happen overnight and the power companies will upgrade capacity to meet the needs over time
Most average residential streets probably dont have enough power to charge an EV on every address simultaneously.
[citation needed]
I'm not saying you are wrong, but this sounds very much like a statement made definitively because it sounds like it might be true but has no particular basis in fact. I'd like to know if you have those facts.
It's likely true, but doesn't have to be, and the fact that this is being phased in with only new units means the power company can plan for it.
The transformers for the neighborhood can provide a certain amount of kVA at once. If all houses on a single transformer drew their max load, they would overload it. The power company plans on that not happening, because people vary their load from minute to minute. A hair dryer goes on in one building when an electric stove is turned off in another.
A few of those houses could upgrade their service. We upgraded ours from 100A to 200A when we installed solar and got EVs. However, if all our neighbors tried to do that, the power company would tell the last few on the list that they couldn't provide capacity (possibly more than a few). This is why smart circuit breaker boxes are important. They can be programmed to turn on certain circuits for high draw items, like electric dryers or an EV charger, in a round-robin fashion so nothing is drawing too much at once. People can get one of those and keep their 100A service.
When it's building new, though, the power company is consulted on how much power the unit needs and they plan accordingly. It's a non-issue for this purpose.
I've yet to find any actual data on typical residential area line capacity - I don't know the right questions to ask. So when you say "it's likely true" what evidence are you basing this on? Did your power company actually tell you that they didn't have capacity for "the last few on the list"?
Google results have gone to dogshit, but If it wasn't true, there wouldn't be a reason for smart circuit breaker boxes.
That is pure conjecture. And I thought the main reasons for a smart panel were things like energy monitoring, solar integration and optimizing charging of EVs.
This is completely untrue. While there might be some streets unable to do this, it is definitely not most.
A) This requires 20A charging, which is lower power draw than a normal electric dryer. Are you super concerned about houses having dryers? What about air conditioners? They pull literally 3 times the power. How can we possibly install air conditioners in every house?!?!
B) The vast majority of these will be used late at night, when most electric draw is at a minimum (like air conditioners and dryers).
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