this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2024

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I updated the trolley experiment now that the never ending flood of public shootings found a target... (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 79 points 2 weeks ago (8 children)

I hadn't thought of it until you mentioned all the public shootings, but a lot of mass shooters just want to be remembered for something. Turning the New York shooter into a folk hero is going to inspire a lot of armed crazy people.

Makes me wonder if now we get reasonable gun control.

[–] [email protected] 77 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

CEO shootings are now just a fact of life in America...

[–] [email protected] 49 points 2 weeks ago

Don’t do that, don’t give me hope

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

Nuthin we can do about it, I guess. 🤷

[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Maybe if the mass shooters realize that killing innocent people isn't gonna make the people like them, they'd change their targets?

Maybe... 👀

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

If I recall, gun control laws in nazi Germany were loosened, but only for nazi party members.

I'm sure they'll craft something that keeps them out of the hands of everyone but the SA and SS.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

3D printers hadn't been invented yet.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (4 children)

Yeahhhh but that's like the FP-45 Liberator gun going up against an AK, let alone tanks and drones. Nobody is using plastic guns for a reason, forgetting the fact that the plastics supply could be tamped and they still require machined parts if the new nazi party really wanted to crack down on that. Leaving aside that the printers necessary to do this so it won't blow up in your face are not exactly low-level consumer-grade and easily controlled on the market. At that point we're basically back to pipe guns.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

It's from the 1990s but still relevant.

"War And Anti-War" by Alvin Toffler. Even before 9/11 he predicted that there'd be a major war against a non-government entity like ISIS. He used the term 'anti-war' to mean a war completely different from the old style of conflict.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Just don't mention the four winds shotgun, and we'll make it through these difficult times together.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I knew I bought a C&C machine for a reason, other than it was used and only $1500

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

Damn, good deal!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 weeks ago

Hmmmm...

Mass shooters stop targeting schools and start going after the 0.01%?

That's one way to get gun control.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm thinking 2 more CEOs and we get the Republicans calling for gun control.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'd give it 3, just to be contrarian.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

A Baker's Dozen even

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago

Ugh, and what you just wrote makes me think that the right wing is probably predictably talking about how much of a leftist the killer was and trying to find any way to play up just what a Democrat they must have been. Because it must be thrilling for them to have the rare kind of political violence happen: the kind not perpetrated by a right winger.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Nah, that's silly, clearly the situation didn't have enough guns. /s

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

No, America never will. The NRA lobby is too strong. You'd have to completely outlaw lobbyists first.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly. Republicans will just push for more funding for police officers.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 2 weeks ago

I think the meme needs to be changed with the guy with the lever also being strapped to the bottom track.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

oh rats it's the trolley problem

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

"i didn't consider the trolley"

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Isn't the trolley problem meant to be a dilemma? Not seeing a dilemma in this version.

[–] snugglesthefalse 2 points 2 weeks ago

In this case it's a metaphor

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Why is the guy at the switch frowning???

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 weeks ago

They hit their lifetime limit for insurance and have cancer.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

You fooling yourself if you don't think we'll go down either way, we just gotta force the corporate class down with us

[–] anomnom 1 points 2 weeks ago

No dilemma here, but good meme I guess?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

Well the people are still gonna get run over, but that might change if enough of the corporate class get run over too. Worth a shot

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

it needs like a whooe group of people pushing the lever...
clear gap in the tracks with "sound waves" like 'click' indicating they're all switching to the side track collectively.

[+] [email protected] -28 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] MartianSands 26 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Do you imagine that everyone posting things like this just hasn't thought it through, or that they believe killing that CEO will save any specific person?

If so, I think you've misunderstood something quite fundamental. The overwhelming majority who are celebrating this assassination are doing so because they hate that CEO and everything he stood for.

You don't get to brush them off as idiots for failing to realise something you consider obvious when you're the one who seems to be missing the point.

Beside which, if you interpret this business with the other insurer suddenly cancelling their plans to limit what they'll pay for anesthesia as suddenly fear of reprisal then this assassination will absolutely save lives in the long run, and save others from life-long financial ruin

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Let me guess… you work for a corporation with a health plan that meets you and your family’s medical needs?

[+] [email protected] -18 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Killing an executive does not change this. It's asinine to think that it does and celebrate murder.

If you are looking at this as a philosophical victory, you do not know a fucking thing about the 'trolley problems'. Or philosophy.

I 100% get the anger at insurance companies. This is a fucking stupid take.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

Killing an executive does not change this

You're right. It's probably going to take more than one.

Tell me, if you're not up for celebrating murder, what do you call giving a multi-million dollar bonus to a guy who was actively complicit in denying sick people the medical care they need? Not elective surgeries; denying lifesaving treatments ordered by their doctor, the lack of which leads to the death the treatment would prevent? I do hope you can admit than when lifesaving care is denied it is no different than murder. The Hippocratic Oath certainly understands that.

I understand where you're coming from. I don't think I could do something like this myself, and I wouldn't call it "right". But it is understandable why people are reacting this way and I think you're squarely in the wrong camp for condemning this; these fuckers broke the social contract and now they are not covered by it. No sympathy.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

And there I agree with you. It's the trolley problem framing that is so infuriating.

As soon as people decide they can move the trolley with a bullet, a whole lot of people are gonna die. And the trolley will continue on unabated, because bullets don't do that.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

I'm not sure you're right that bullets can't be a lever, though. Firing the gun is pulling the lever, but nobody ever said it has to be a single lever pull that diverts the trolley.

The point of the trolley problem is ~~that doing nothing results in more deaths~~ to explore the limits of utilitarianism. It starts with the question of whether actively choosing to cause less destruction is worse than doing nothing to stop greater destruction, and you can add context to make it more complex from there.

In the trolley problem, the choice is to kill one to save many by pulling a lever. The lever of regulation has failed, so now the people are going to start pulling levers of their own, to try and reduce deaths. Just because it's not "the literal trolley problem but in real life" does not mean it's not the trolley problem.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

You do have a point there. What I was predicting was that the targets would quickly become "anyone we don't like" and then the trolley comes for us all.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

That is a valid concern! And it's the main reason I'm generally against vigilantism, since I've grown up. (Also, I edited my comment while you were replying - I didn't mean to rugpull you, I just realised I wasn't articulate enough in my point about the trolley problem applying).

But, murder is still murder and this guy is probably going to get caught and put on trial, and punished. I think most people who wouldn't risk it before this won't risk it now, and certainly not for petty grievances, but if someone's situation is dire enough...

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago

Lol, weren't you just complaining about people misusing the trolley problem.....and now you're worried about the trolley becoming the star of Steven kings Christine?

The trolley problem isn't a law or anything. It's literally just a tool for kids to explore questionable ethical dilemmas, and it doesn't really apply to the real world. Which means it's perfectly suitable for shit posting memes.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

Democracy @ Work- Labor Unions and Political Power

Give it a watch. Hopefully it will give you another way of understanding this event.

The state used bullets (cops with a monopoly on the use of violence to shape societal behavior, elevating the power of the $ over individual voices in politics, etc) to keep the trolly on the tracks. Of course removing a conductor doesn’t stop a trolly in motion. But that’s not what this is about.

If you want to pretend that this event is about a healthcare CEO and healthcare policy you need to check your benefits to see if it includes vision. This is about trying to wake up the majority of wage slaves that earn for scraps by defending the top. And guess what? The general social reaction is showing that many people feel this way.

Takes like yours seem designed to get this event out of public consciousness as fast as possible.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 weeks ago

How them boots taste?

Juxtaposition of a recent news even in which the CEO of a health insurance company was killed and the next day a major insurance company reversed an arbitrary limit on the duration of anesthesia suring surgery that its policies would cover

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The meme very clearly says "corporate class", meaning this will take many CEOs to ultimately save people.