So when I get to the section titled "what can we do?" I just stop reading, because what's the fucking point?
this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
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The only options left are all illegal. It is time to disobey.
I was actually thinking about this last night. I was considering building a list of people that I should visit.
If we truly reach a point where the world becomes so horribly unlivable for so many people then I will go pay the people responsible a visit. They shouldn't be allowed to live a happily ever after in their climate compounds funded by their destruction of the planet.
They won't. The truth is biodome didnt work. They may stave off an extra 10-20 years underground but they are foolish if they think they will be spared. These effects span hundreds of years. This truly is our only sinking ship in an ocean of stars.
We always wondered what the great filter might be for the Fermi Paradox. Turns out one of the big ones is just that our petri dish is so delicate we can't advance very far without it collapsing immediately.
It's not even that. The petri dish could sustain the advancement until we could pivot to cleaner/safer things. We just chose not to pivot. The filter (for humans, anyway) is selfishness and greed.
10-20 years assuming the people living on top don't block the air flow out of spite...
I thought about that too.
A website where the names of the worst business people are written down with an explanation and proof of what exactly they did that fucked everybody. Of course those people get tracked like the elon jet and the website shows the last known location.
Bonus points for operating it completely legal because privacy rights got eroded.
Would love to see what happens.
The point is to make things less bad. The oil mafia likes doomers who have already given up.
Short of blowing up oil infrastructure, what else should I be doing? I already eat less meat, work from home, buy renewable electricity, have a heat pump, avoid driving when I can, vote regularly, and don't fly and it's still not enough.
Individual actions are a distraction. Only collective action can change the course of society.
I highly recommend looking into what local groups are working on this issue in your area and sign up.
Good idea. If I’m gonna sabotage oil infrastructure I’ll need some help.
I can’t tell if you’re joking but very few organizations are doing that sort of action which is generally quite risky. There are a range of actions between the sort of personal responsibility actions you’re doing and outright sabotage. I know people here are generally dismissive of these but letter-writing, petitions, marches, etc. can all be effective parts of a political movement, as can more radical actions like blockades or strikes.
Personally, I think sabotage has to be carefully considered in the context of a broader campaign or it risks becoming an element of reactionary propaganda. It doesn’t help that our culture has for decades, perhaps centuries conflated property damage with violence against people, and this often makes people unsure if those who engage in the former might also engage in the latter. While I could see that sabotage might be morally justified in some situations, it’s not clear that it’s the correct tactic when the climate movement is as small and weak as it is right now.
Letter writing and petitions and marches have been going on for decades now and haven’t worked. I know, I was there.
And at least if we blow up a pipeline it’ll be better than throwing soup on a painting or gluing myself to a road.
Blowing up a pipeline would be a bit counter productive wouldn't it? Don't think there is something like a clean pipeline explosion.
I think a more effective way of steering the wheel would be to associate the position of the decision maker and the outcome of that decision with fear.
I’m not sure if I agree that they haven’t worked. The severity of climate change has been significantly reduced by currently enacted policies, even as the situation continues to look fairly dire.
Like any mass movement, the effectiveness of these actions depends on the number of people engaged in them. To date, this movement has been fairly small compared to other movements that succeeded in bringing about similarly large changes. Furthermore, while blowing up a pipeline might have a more tangible and direct impact, that impact is still very small, and the political implications are complicated. The idea that fossil fuels can be stopped completely through sabotage seems at least as far-fetched as the idea that it can be stopped through letter-writing.
Given that situation, the main question becomes: how does this movement grow large enough that its demands must be answered fully? I think a clear and coherent message and political strategy is essential. Framing the issue as one of ordinary people fighting for children and the common good against the interests of a corrupt elite is usually beneficial. I worry that property destruction undermines this framing by defining the movement in public consciousness as violent extremists instead of a movement that is fighting to protect ordinary people. I think this was a major failing of the George Floyd protests which had widespread public support until they were successfully smeared as lawless rebels who engaged in looting and arson. Even though very few people engaged in this behavior, the right’s media dominance allowed them to convince many people that this was the whole movement and it lost support for its demands.
You're way more chill about the death of the biosphere than I consider healthy.
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I've been thinking that we need to create a voting block of people who will vote for climate emergency policies. Similar to how unions have political strength due to advising their members who to vote for, this organization would advise members on who in local elections is the best for positive climate initiatives.
I think a block of voters is needed because right now climate wasn't even an issue in the US election. We need to organise so that these policies are a target for politicians looking to obtain votes.
The Climate Action Network already exists. And considering the results of the last election they're not very effective.
I figured that something like that must already exist, but I had never heard of it. Probably why they're not very effective.
Oh, and thanks for linking them. I'll check it out and at least sign up for the newsletter.
Edit nevermind, the newsletter hasn't had a release since December 2021.
I don't think we have the time to wait for the next election.
Go then. There are other elections than these.
Sorry, re-read The Gunslinger recently.
I was actually thinking about the Canadian election that is coming up.
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You didn't miss anything. That section didn't offer any solutions.
I don't know what we are supposed to do. It's not over, we still have a fight left on our hands. I'm just going to be depressed the rest of the day and hope my wife doesn't notice bcz it's her birthday. I'll figure out how I can help later.
I've seen a couple of articles from earth.com shared lately and they always have this clickbaity sensationalist tone. I don't like it.
Looking at the original publication this article is based on I don't understand much (I'm not a climate scientist myself), but one sentence stands out:
Whether global warming has affected the strength of this overturning circulation over the past century is still debated: observational studies suggest that there has been persistent weakening since the mid-twentieth century, whereas climate models systematically simulate a stable circulation.
The climate models we all know and predict how climate change will affect us all seem to work on the basis that these currents have a stable circulation that doesn't change, which doesn't seem to be the case. Therefore the climate models we've known until now might be wrong... and things could be even worse.
Thanks for actually reading the source. Here's a better description of the actual scenario https://youtu.be/tnVWUIhQ8dE?si=q3yueWx9d5jyC76s
Does it mean, for instance, Europe will have the same temperature than Canada and north of US (same latitude)? Without speaking about all the other dramatic effects...
Basically, yes, winters in Europe are mild bcz of the ocean currents. England, in particular, will start having seriously cold winters. The weather will also no longer be stable if this happens.
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Well, as a Finn I am not too keen, our weather will turn to Siberian style winter...
But because the heat doesn't move, some parts might become so hot that nothing lives there.
Helsinki will be fine https://youtu.be/tnVWUIhQ8dE?si=q3yueWx9d5jyC76s
Much farther up north, yeah probably
The day after tomorrow?
Yeah but now it’s just tomorrow
Two Days Before the Day After Tomorrow
We should worry when the helicopters start falling out of the sky and the people freeze to death in seconds.
No https://youtu.be/tnVWUIhQ8dE?si=q3yueWx9d5jyC76s
But it will mean colder Europe and a collapse of marine ecosystems probably..
What brings warm winters to Europe is a warm northern Atlantic, and Mediterranean. This can still happen with a slower AMOC, and in fact is at record warmth these past 2 years, and a warm winter for Europe should be expected.
https://climatereanalyzer.org/wx/todays-weather/?var_id=sstanom&ortho=1&wt=1
That AMOC may be slower is not stopping significant heat where the gulf stream flows. CO2 is making norther part of oceans hot without the gulf stream being fast, but hotter tropical water moving more slowly can still make for comparable heat dumped north.
The other major change happening last 2 years is that Arctic ocean freezing is thinner than previously. While Arctic ice volume set a major record low this past summer, the volume of meltwater flowing south was pretty steady with recent years, because the winter peak ice volume was also a record low. That winter ice volume is low primarily from ocean heat finding its way up to the Arctic in summer, and less due to extreme summer warm air temperatures.
The actual danger from slow AMOC, that is manifesting these last 2 years, is an extremely hot tropical Atlantic. Heat not moving away as fast as it is generated.
Thanks for the clarification. I was feeling pretty defeated reading this earlier today.
The Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation, or AMOC, is like a massive ocean conveyor belt that moves warm and cold water around the Atlantic Ocean.
So you're saying that global warming is making AMOC run amok?
Thanks, I needed this
Their simulation less than two decades, but looking at past climate predictions, I feel like we'll reach that point in a decade or less...
And we're still obsessed with economic growth/metastasis 😂
"Herp derp don't worry! we'll just keep injecting steroids and nutrients directly into your tumor. It's the only way to save you. The tumor just needs to be so large that it will magically discover a way to keep metastasizing even larger... forever!"
Won't that absolutely kill me even faster?
"Oh, yeah probably. Who fucking cares though, growth!"
Fuck. What now?
I see lots of confusion and misinformation here. The gulf stream is not the AMOC. The AMOC does not start in the gulf stream, and the gulf stream will most definitely not shut down. Clarification here https://youtu.be/tnVWUIhQ8dE?si=q3yueWx9d5jyC76s
I don’t know what to say anymore.
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