Technically yes, you'd have to find an exploit for your TV that allows for installing your own OS.
It's not super feasible but it's technically possible.
this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
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It should be a thing because most (all?) "smart TVs" run some variety of Linux, which, as Free Software, is supposed to guarantee the device owner's right to modify the software running on the thing. However, in most (all?) cases, the practical ability to do that has been destroyed by subverting encryption functions against the owner in a process called Tivoization.
In other words:
- No, it isn't really a thing,
- It's wrong for it not to be a thing, and
- You should be pissed off about it.
Thanks for teaching me a new concept to be angry about, I guess.
I mean, they did it with phones too. Android is just Linux. That was one of the main attractions, for me at least.
At first, many people and groups supplied their own phone OSes. There was a whole thriving community ecosystem. Then they started to make it really hard, locking bootloaders and including critical pieces of hardware that didn't or couldn't have open source drivers (look up WinModems for a very early example of this technique, it remains really effective) or otherwise required extremely convoluted methods to access and the phone might function marginally without some of these fully functional, but at least you could still install a custom ROM on it if you were stubborn enough.
But even that wouldn't last. Nowadays they've made it literally impossible to defeat the security on most phones, in the name of keeping hackers and criminals out, but really a big part of their motivation is blocking these pirate OSes that let you actually control the hardware and software in your phone, doing criminally nefarious things like stopping them from downloading ads (the horror!) and preventing them from funneling all your data and activities back to Big Brother (how rude!) and worst of all updating it with modern functionality after they've declared it "obsolete". The goal going forward is to sell you things that you don't and can't control, so they can shut them down or make them gradually more and more useless and make you buy new ones forever. They want you to have a subscription for everything including physical objects without realizing that you've been forced to subscribe to their regularly-scheduled-disposable-device-replacement-plan for no actual reason.
They're coming for computers too, or at least they'll try. They want control of everything we interact with. For profit, mostly, but I wouldn't rule out other motives. It's a powerful thing when you have control of everything people see and do.
STOP IT!! I WAS ABOUT TO HAVE A GOOD DAY TODAY!!
I could be wrong (I haven't really paid attention lately), but I think the state of Linux on "smart" TVs is considerably more dire than the state of Android phones. At least with the latter, projects like LineageOS and GrapheneOS are a thing, whereas I know of zero third-party community firmware projects for TVs.
Oh absolutely. Smart TVs are completely under the control of the technology and media companies with very little hope for freeing them, except that you can still plug a computer into them to bypass all the "smart" features and just use it as a dumb screen with a smart computer instead. But they always seem to put a few new stumbling blocks in the way of both those options every year. That loophole will eventually get closed, it won't happen overnight, but they will keep eroding the functionalities and convenience of doing so until few if anyone wants to do that anymore.
Cars are nearly a lost cause too, except where regulations say they must use some standard like OBD2 for "emissions reasons", although that is obviously a limited scope and manufacturers try to find any ways they can to sabotage it or otherwise avoid it. Appliances and "smart homes", all the way down to the light bulbs and LEDs, have plenty of proprietary, locked down, unrepairable technology in them too despite reliable open standards being available. The war for total control over our digital devices is in full swing and there's no area of our lives from large to small that isn't a battleground. People need to keep prioritizing the freedom of their devices because once they get these technologies and features entrenched it's going to be very hard to work around them.
Woah woah woah, slow down partner, you're not done yet.
- you should absolutely make as much headway on this project as you can, then share the results so we can all benefit.
The Free Software Foundation explicitly forbade tivoization in version 3 of the GNU General Public License. However, although version 3 has been adopted by many software projects, the authors of the Linux kernel have notably declined to move from version 2 to version 3.
How come Linux doesn't use GPL v3?
Linux copyrights are owned by many different people, so it would be prohibitively difficult to ask every person to agree to a GPLv3 change. Even if you could, Linus Torvalds is not a fan of the v3 license.
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It's interesting to see some of the back-and-forth on this topic between different proponents of free software.
I listened to this talk by Linus Torvalds a while back and it relates to the GPL license used by the Linux kernel and why the kernel hasn't changed to GPLv3. Apparently Linus doesn't find this practice by Tivo and other hardware manufacturers to be an issue.
Yes, it's a damn shame that Linus is weak on property rights.
Because that's what this actually is, by the way: violating the device owner's property rights in order to prioritize the manufacturer's temporary monopoly privilege over the software -- which was only created for the sole and express purpose "to promote the progress of science and the useful arts" in the first place -- above them.
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I bet somebody's done it. There are people in the Linux world who dedicate themselves to getting it to run on anything - a TV, a toaster...
But it would probably be a lot easier to just run Linux on a Raspberry Pi or something and use the TV as a monitor.
It is still possible to buy "dumb" TV's. Tons of businesses need them for display purposes (like at fast food restaurants and corporate expos, etc, etc), but you need to search for commercial displays. Like this one.
Bless you for providing a link; I can't tell you howany times I've seen this advice without any link or instructions on how to locate these
No problem! I work in television/live streaming production. Finding and buying "dumb" monitors when we build out new sets and presentation spaces is literally part of my job.
Day 1,826 of telling people they can buy a smart TV and just not connect it to the internet
You don't need to spend $700 on a TV that doesn't connect to the internet
Wait until you learn tvs can piggy back off other tvs that are connected to the internet.
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It's similar to console hacking. If there is no known exploit, the device is not yours. LG patched the exploit that made that possible for my smart TV and know I need to wait for another to be doscovered. Unfortunately the Smart TV hacking community is not that active.
https://github.com/RootMyTV/RootMyTV.github.io
https://xdaforums.com/t/getmein-one-time-rooting-jailbreaking-tool-for-webos-lg-tvs.3887904/
Unfortunately the Smart TV hacking community is not that active.
It is a bit more active than your links seem to indicate, but is not very well organized or easy to find.
Use https://cani.rootmy.tv/ to check recent status of rooting LG TVs models. Many slightly older, 2+ years old TVs are still rootable, due to this exploit from 2024: https://github.com/throwaway96/dejavuln-autoroot
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Nvidia shields with an alternate home screen have been a good solution for me? TV isn't connected to the network directly, just to the shield.
I've got RetroArch, Plex, Spotify on each of them - that sort of stuff.
bingo. never put the tv on the network, just budget for adding something else. tvs have been known to update after a year and start injecting ads outside return policy LOL. fucking scam's man. my shield fucks up, it gets flashed. or traded out.
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In principle, yes, and I believe a few small hobby projects have attempted to do this and support specific TVs. However, interest in developing a custom Smart TV platform tends to get siphoned away into a project where the output from your actual platform is displayed on the TV rather than running directly on it. Simply, it’s easier to develop and maintain support across different models.
Why would you develop a custom TV OS that runs on one TV when you could develop it for any mini PC and immediately support all TVs? You’d have to develop your OS to run on each specific TV model which will make it quite hard to reach a critical mass sufficient to attract attention from developers and users alike.
The juice isn’t really worth the squeeze. It’s not like TV vendors are publishing detailed hardware specs and drivers. Writing or even porting an OS is hard. Look at the state of the Android ROM scene, and that’s about as good as it gets when some vendors are actually attempting to open source their drivers. The difficulty is much higher and the interest lower due to the existence of a viable alternative.
With that said, motivated minds have done it anyway. You just need to have the right TV for it.
Usually that means trying to get Android TV working through USB, but it depends on what tv you have. If you already have an Android TV, just use a launcher like Projectivy. Most people just buy a media box: either an Android based one or apple tv and disable the "smart" tv altogether
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Get a dumb TV and plug in a cheap computer where you can pirate everything
I'm not sure they exist, but either way, just plug something in and don't connect the TV itself to the internet.
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It's much easier to run a HTPC on something small like a Raspberry Pi, or an NVIDIA Shield. The hardware on your TV is probably the bare minimum to run its own smart features, and replacing the firmware doesn't guarantee that the TV isn't still phoning home with your data.
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What I did was bought a "commercial" television that's intended to either be put in a waiting room and tuned to Fox News all day, OR used as digital signage. It's not quite an Arby's menu board because it's still obviously a television, has a tuner and such, but it has no "smart" TV in it and the backlight isn't as "won't survive a run of Breath of the Wild" like the TCL televisions my parents own. Then I slapped a Raspberry Pi 4 on the back with OSMC on it. Meanwhile I did replace my small form factor desktop gaming rig, so I have a Ryzen 3600/GTX1080 rig sitting unplugged under that television waiting for me to build up the gumption to switch over to it.
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Best is to try to get the dumbest TV you can and plug in an android tv streaming box to it imo
I believe that's called a monitor. Just buy a bigass monitor or projector.
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This is a damn good question that I would also love an answer to!
I have another question.
Can we reprogramme the remote buttons that open Netflix, YouTube etc., so that they open other apps like Jellyfin or something?
Those companies paid to have their buttons on the remote. Your TV manufacturer is not going to threaten their sponsorship deal by letting you use those buttons for anything else.
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Yes, it's called jailbreaking. That said it basically never happens because TV's are pretty much shitty monitors with cheap digital encoders, and you can buy an encoder and a good monitor for way way cheaper than rewriting an OS.
I'd think most people woud go for a cheap used ultra Small Form Factor pc or raspberry pi set up as an htpc. Plug in to either tv screen (via hdmi ) or monitor / projector directly. Never connect the tv to the internet - or even to your LAN if you're really paranoid. You can arse around with a remote control a bit bodgy, or just use wireless Keyboard/mouse.
I cant imagine spending the time to jailbreak a tv to get less functionality for more hassle - but i'm sure some crazy will have done it - good luck finding them though.
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